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and it hits me oh my gosh this is that

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triangle

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you know there's explanation for

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everything that occurred in the

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Rendlesham forest incident involved

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aliens at all it was completely silent

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it comes right over our heads really

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standing McCleary

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he turned over to my father and held his

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hand and he looked in his eyes and said

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we're not alone welcome to podcast UFO

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for our live show we're live every

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Wednesday at 8 p.m. Eastern Standard

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Time on the dark matter radio network

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please remember to visit the website

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podcast UFO comm for past episodes blogs

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and forums during the show feel free to

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participate live in our chat room and

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don't forget to Like us on our very

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active Facebook page hello and welcome

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to the show I'm Martyn Willis your host

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we have Alejandro Rojas coming up in

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just a minute and our guest tonight is

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Don Ecker seasoned UFO researcher and

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we're gonna be maybe calling some people

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out maybe talking about some hoaxers and

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some people that hang on to old beliefs

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I don't know what we're gonna get into

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but I have a feeling it's going to be

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something like that I want to thank all

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our supporters for supporting the show

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if you want to listen to the full show

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and you're not listening live you can

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listen to the podcast for one hour for

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free and you can support us for only a

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dollar or more per month and all that

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informations on podcast UFO I'm going to

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say a couple of shout outs to some new

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people that are $5 a month or more and

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there was a Paul he has no last name

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registered thank you Paul Jeff and thank

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you Jeff and also Justin Brown it said I

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could use his whole name

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he's from Halifax Nova Scotia I think he

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just had a sighting he sent me something

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steve-o and Dan and Bill they're at the

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ten dollar well thank you so much and so

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is Michael D from know Michael Douglas

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he said I could use his whole name and

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he's supporting us from

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as mania and there's a Justin B and a

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unified field radio thank you both and a

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wayne-o in a shain you you you guys have

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bellied up to the bar for $25 a month

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subscription that thanks a lot and

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you're joining my good friend Phil who's

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been there from the beginning and I am

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very grateful to you all and actually

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grateful to every single listener and

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that is actually enough of my nonsense

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and it's time to bring on Alejandro

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Rojas how you doing alejandro I am doing

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good you ready for some of my nonsense

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absolutely all right yeah yeah so you

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feeling better these days yes much

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better than I was a week ago when I was

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filling yucky and my tummy was filling a

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little gurgly at this time but yeah you

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sound you sound chipper today

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I should good yeah that's good yeah so I

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was noticing because I I get you know

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UFO Google Alerts and I was noticing

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there was a there's some things going on

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this week well this is what's funny it's

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the UK really papers have gone nutso

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they've got wankers that's right it is

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UK yeah they all of their papers are

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posting like they're trying to outdo

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each other with UFO stories most of

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their stories are really crappy yes

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you know I posted one on the Facebook

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page because of Peggy's under the

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weather right now so I've been working

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on the Facebook page and I did get a lot

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of lash back from one that was what I

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knew it was kind of ridiculous but it

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got a lot of conversations going yeah

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they're usually ridiculous and I

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shouldn't say they're all crap because a

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lot of times luckily that they do seem

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to monitor our site and they'll post

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stories regarding things that we write

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about but when we go through the news

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today I'm not even using one of those

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stories because even though on our front

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page we do go through the headlines and

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you can see some of the headlines with

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UFO stories you'll notice that their

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stories are all kind of ridiculous

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they're they're really poor videos or

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hoax hoax videos hmm okay so that's

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great you got some new

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newse that's not from the UK section

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right so let's have it this first one I

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just wanted to mention it's kind of an

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honorable mention because it's not

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necessarily UFOs but it's at area 51 and

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this video is so much fun so there was

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this guy again Glen Campbell and then

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the 90s he was a big area 51 researcher

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this is this guy's really interesting he

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doesn't own a home he's a homeless

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person he's very proud of that he always

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lives out of his car he used to live

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near area 51 and get take videos and

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trying to bug the security guards and

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stuff like that

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and did a lot of stuff on area 51 had

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some really good information and

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photographs and stuff like that but it's

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been a while since he's done this sort

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of work he's still homeless he says but

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now he's an author and he's doing a lot

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of other stuff well he went back to area

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51 to take some video just for old time

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sakes he says and that he got harassed

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by the security guards and it the video

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is really funny so he's there and he's

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on he says you know nan you know he's

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not on the base so he's on this side of

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the signs and you see this truck and as

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soon as he puts his camera on the truck

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the truck kind of backs up and hides

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behind this bush and it's really

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ridiculous like I wrote in my story

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about it it reminds me of the cat's you

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know how a cat will kind of hide its

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head and think that it's hidden and you

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can see its entire body

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yeah it's that sort of thing so it's

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really silly so then he decided to trick

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him and he went and he parked and he

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walked up this hill so and they sure not

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followed

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but then he backtracked on the other

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side of the hill came around behind

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these guys in their truck and he's

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filming and he's kind of giggling as

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he's sneaking up on him and he gets like

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really close to the truck he's

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practically right in front of the truck

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before they notice they're just kind of

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blabbing away it looks like holding the

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conversation and talking when he comes

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around and finally they spot him and one

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of them jumps out of the truck and says

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hey you want me to take that camera and

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he runs away and he's like you can't

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take my camera and

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and he said that he kept running and

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they went their way and he went his that

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the video is just hilarious it should

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have a Benny Hill soundtrack behind it

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but it's really good I think that people

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would have a lot of fun and you can

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check it out and you get it a close look

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at those cool trucks that they drive

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that you see up on the hill when you go

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to visit their roads going to area 51 so

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that is for the listener that video will

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be linked right in our show notes which

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will bring you over to open mind start

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TV and you can watch that and I'm

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looking forward to watching that myself

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yeah it's a lot of fun you've got to see

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it you love you'll love it yeah

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otherwise in UFO news actually we wrote

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a lot of stuff about triangles there's

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been a lot of triangular UFOs seen in

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the news lately and so this is kind of

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interesting so the first story I wanted

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to mention is this gentleman with a

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military background he says that he was

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formerly in Navy rescue and so he knows

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aircraft warning lights but he had seen

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some strange lights at about 8:00 p.m.

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on June 11th that he could not explain

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he got a little bit of video of them and

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you see these three lights that are in a

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triangular formation kind of blinking

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strangely kind of an odd video it's a

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pretty short video but he was able to

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get video of this and he's just saying

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that you know he thinks it's really

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weird he doesn't know what it was and

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this was in North Carolina in the story

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that Roger Marsh had written about this

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he noted that he had contacted Sandford

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Davis who is the MUFON Carolina North

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Carolina investigator who looked at it

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and she had closed it as an unknown he

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couldn't figure out what it was and that

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there was another sighting soon after

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just a few days later in the same area

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Davis suggested that perhaps it was

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military and some kind of black project

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perhaps a variation of the Astra tr-3b

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which there is no evidence exists but

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it's kind of a mythology out there but

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still you know it's certainly possible

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and there are I know for a fact we have

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found Inklings of triangular-shaped

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secret aircraft that is out there so

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there's something whether or not it's an

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unconventional in nature that's to be

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foreseen

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however there were another couple of

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triangular sightings that Roger had

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written about it open mind stat TV one

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of the more recent one was around Kansas

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City and this was a very bright light

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that someone had seen on August 14 it

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was coming towards them it was going

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slowly and it was or it was moving fast

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and very close to the ground so this

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person says at first it was in the

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direction of the airport so they didn't

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think much of it then they parked

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because it looked like this was a

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airplane that was about to crash so they

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parked to take a look at it and it got

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closer and closer and the light actually

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zoomed overhead and that's when this

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person could see it was actually three

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lights in a triangular formation so that

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was kind of a weird story

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now do you know if that one in

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particular made any noise a great

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question it did not make any noise

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that's why they thought it was a plane

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crashing because there were no engine

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sounds dog just ash whooshing of air

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they said moving through the air you

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know it's funny a lot of times you never

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hear of anybody even saying that yeah

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you're right

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the schooch are there yeah and yeah

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you're right which is of odd this is

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true or real word actually they used to

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switch swish like okay so I haven't

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googled that to find if it's a real word

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I don't think it is but you know what's

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funny these days I don't I don't think

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there's an age I remember growing up it

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was not like this when that worked there

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was words added to the dictionary would

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be a big deal there'd be a new story you

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know you'd see all about it there just

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be a couple right it would be

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controversial these days they're adding

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you know words like crazy like every

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word someone makes up so that it's

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shorter for them to tweet it

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it gets in the dictionary so I'm sure

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sure if we start using swish in fact

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especially if we started hashtagging it

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we can get it in the dictionary in no

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time I think we should we should get on

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this and get it done

270
00:11:24,230 --> 00:11:22,050
one last triangular UFO sighting I

271
00:11:28,100 --> 00:11:24,240
wanted to talk about was seen at on

272
00:11:30,260 --> 00:11:28,110
August 19th and this is in the Austin

273
00:11:33,530 --> 00:11:30,270
Texas area this one's a little more

274
00:11:36,230 --> 00:11:33,540
exciting because it was 644 a.m. so it

275
00:11:39,950 --> 00:11:36,240
was during daylight hours and this was a

276
00:11:42,620 --> 00:11:39,960
guy who says he was outside and looking

277
00:11:44,540 --> 00:11:42,630
at a squirrel on an apartment rooftop

278
00:11:47,060 --> 00:11:44,550
which kind of reminds that's it it's

279
00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:47,070
like me in the morning my brain takes

280
00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:49,410
forever to warm up so my I'm like a

281
00:11:54,410 --> 00:11:52,290
zombie and that's like about as much

282
00:11:56,330 --> 00:11:54,420
input as I can kind of comprehend in the

283
00:11:58,580 --> 00:11:56,340
morning I can see myself sitting there

284
00:12:00,770 --> 00:11:58,590
in the morning watching a squirrel you

285
00:12:04,730 --> 00:12:00,780
know like a dog just watching and going

286
00:12:06,290 --> 00:12:04,740
back and forth but anyway I think that's

287
00:12:07,670 --> 00:12:06,300
what I'm guessing that's what this guy

288
00:12:09,590 --> 00:12:07,680
was doing trying to wake up in the

289
00:12:12,290 --> 00:12:09,600
morning he's watching the squirrel run

290
00:12:15,650 --> 00:12:12,300
around and then beyond the squirrel he

291
00:12:17,540 --> 00:12:15,660
noticed a triangular shaped object that

292
00:12:21,050 --> 00:12:17,550
he said was coming towards him

293
00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:21,060
at a high rate of speed he said what was

294
00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:23,130
interesting is that the body of the

295
00:12:29,930 --> 00:12:26,730
object appeared transparent like it was

296
00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:29,940
changing colors it actually flew over

297
00:12:35,150 --> 00:12:32,730
him he said it was cloudy and he

298
00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:35,160
estimated the clouds were around 13,000

299
00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:37,050
feet so he thinks this was a bit lower

300
00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:39,570
than that because he could see it but

301
00:12:45,980 --> 00:12:42,210
yeah the strange object he felt was kind

302
00:12:47,630 --> 00:12:45,990
of stealthy even had some kind of color

303
00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:47,640
changing properties that zoomed right

304
00:12:53,500 --> 00:12:51,090
over his head well well is that it for

305
00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:53,510
this week that's it for this week

306
00:12:58,250 --> 00:12:56,730
triangles on parade I know and it seemed

307
00:13:00,970 --> 00:12:58,260
like there are a couple of stories we

308
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:00,980
had the week before more and more and

309
00:13:06,110 --> 00:13:03,930
millat of triangular sightings so really

310
00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:06,120
interesting stuff and I have heard from

311
00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:08,310
David Mayer and that should get back to

312
00:13:13,100 --> 00:13:11,250
him he of course it's a guy who wrote a

313
00:13:15,890 --> 00:13:13,110
book on triangles that I would recommend

314
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:15,900
you had him on your show he's got some

315
00:13:21,660 --> 00:13:18,730
new stuff out there too so

316
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:21,670
yeah yeah about that all right well

317
00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:23,650
thanks very much and we'll be talking to

318
00:13:26,490 --> 00:13:25,930
you next week all right talk to you soon

319
00:13:28,170 --> 00:13:26,500
buddy

320
00:14:26,270 --> 00:13:28,180
all right quick music break right here

321
00:14:31,340 --> 00:14:29,570
that music is by a fan and Ireland

322
00:14:34,070 --> 00:14:31,350
Carrie Lord Whitehouse thanks for that

323
00:14:35,030 --> 00:14:34,080
Carrie and before we bring dawn in just

324
00:14:36,890 --> 00:14:35,040
quickly I'm going to be at the

325
00:14:39,380 --> 00:14:36,900
experience or speak in Portland Maine

326
00:14:42,530 --> 00:14:39,390
this coming Friday night and Saturday

327
00:14:44,750 --> 00:14:42,540
and hope to see you there I'd be you're

328
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:44,760
listening to the show please come find

329
00:14:49,610 --> 00:14:47,010
me I'll be around I think Saturday might

330
00:14:52,550 --> 00:14:49,620
have a podcast UFO t-shirt on I'm not

331
00:14:56,500 --> 00:14:52,560
sure but anyway hope to hang out with

332
00:15:00,140 --> 00:14:56,510
you and also we have a phone number here

333
00:15:01,970 --> 00:15:00,150
603 nine six seven four Oh 304 Collins

334
00:15:04,370 --> 00:15:01,980
make a note of that if you would or if

335
00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:04,380
you want to Skype in it's Marty Willis

336
00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:09,290
ma RT y WI ll is Don Ecker how are you

337
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:13,440
fine how about you Martin great and you

338
00:15:18,590 --> 00:15:16,650
are what I call a seasoned person you've

339
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:18,600
been at this a long time and you have an

340
00:15:23,300 --> 00:15:20,850
interesting background but the person

341
00:15:26,060 --> 00:15:23,310
that may not know you I'm sure a lot or

342
00:15:29,260 --> 00:15:26,070
most do but can you fill us in with your

343
00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:29,270
background and what your interest was

344
00:15:37,430 --> 00:15:32,850
how you started having an interest in

345
00:15:42,220 --> 00:15:37,440
UFOs and alike well my interest in UFOs

346
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:42,230
actually went goes back to when I was

347
00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:45,530
excuse me a teenager I had a rather

348
00:15:53,900 --> 00:15:50,480
exciting sighting in December of 1966

349
00:15:56,230 --> 00:15:53,910
I'm originally from the east coast from

350
00:16:01,190 --> 00:15:56,240
Pennsylvania I live in California now

351
00:16:04,060 --> 00:16:01,200
but in December especially during that

352
00:16:08,150 --> 00:16:04,070
period of time I was in high school and

353
00:16:11,780 --> 00:16:08,160
I was on a deer hunting trip with four

354
00:16:16,420 --> 00:16:11,790
friends when we were coming back late in

355
00:16:18,010 --> 00:16:16,430
the afternoon we were over flown by for

356
00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:18,020
brilliant

357
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:22,290
Arclight type lights and one of my

358
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:26,850
friends saw them first and yelled and we

359
00:16:31,550 --> 00:16:29,010
all jumped turned around and these

360
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:31,560
lights were and they were not low they

361
00:16:39,060 --> 00:16:34,770
were probably I'm gonna guess somewhere

362
00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:39,070
between twelve fifteen thousand feet

363
00:16:45,630 --> 00:16:42,490
perhaps but they were striking I mean

364
00:16:48,030 --> 00:16:45,640
just absolutely striking and as they

365
00:16:49,740 --> 00:16:48,040
overflow it's the one light in the rear

366
00:16:53,070 --> 00:16:49,750
they originally were in a diamond

367
00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:53,080
formation suddenly shot straight up in

368
00:16:58,740 --> 00:16:55,570
the skies so that's when I knew that

369
00:17:00,900 --> 00:16:58,750
there was as far as I was concerned you

370
00:17:09,410 --> 00:17:00,910
bet there was something to the

371
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:09,420
phenomenon so I guess it was in 1982

372
00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:13,930
although I was not then consciously

373
00:17:19,829 --> 00:17:16,329
aware of it but I was a criminal

374
00:17:22,590 --> 00:17:19,839
investigator a policeman and I had been

375
00:17:26,610 --> 00:17:22,600
called out - this was in the state of

376
00:17:29,970 --> 00:17:26,620
Idaho I had been called out on an

377
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:29,980
agricultural crime I had been sent out

378
00:17:41,130 --> 00:17:35,730
because a farmer had reported a dead cow

379
00:17:45,980 --> 00:17:41,140
one of his cattle that was only maybe 35

380
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:45,990
yards or so from the rear of his house

381
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:49,930
in other words it had happened literally

382
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:52,090
on top of his house and it was a classic

383
00:18:00,830 --> 00:17:56,890
mutilation and the guy had several kids

384
00:18:05,990 --> 00:18:00,840
he was married he had a couple of dogs

385
00:18:09,950 --> 00:18:06,000
nothing had alerted any of the dogs or

386
00:18:13,890 --> 00:18:09,960
himself or his family when this happened

387
00:18:18,570 --> 00:18:13,900
apparently sometime during the night so

388
00:18:21,510 --> 00:18:18,580
that case was was never solved and it

389
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:21,520
wasn't until a number of years later I

390
00:18:29,610 --> 00:18:24,490
was I was wounded in the line of duty

391
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:29,620
ended up medically retiring in 1986 and

392
00:18:36,090 --> 00:18:32,530
the following year while I was going

393
00:18:39,470 --> 00:18:36,100
through physical rehab to keep myself

394
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:39,480
busy I bought my first computer system

395
00:18:47,340 --> 00:18:43,810
wow that's early 1986 seven yeah that's

396
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:47,350
pretty early and then I compounded that

397
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:50,530
error error that Martin by buying a

398
00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:52,290
modem

399
00:18:59,300 --> 00:18:55,770
and I discovered CompuServe - the - yeah

400
00:19:01,850 --> 00:18:59,310
six dollars forty cents an hour at 300

401
00:19:06,620 --> 00:19:01,860
baud okay now if you don't know what 300

402
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:06,630
baud is you're lucky that was a

403
00:19:11,780 --> 00:19:09,330
chiseling you know chiseling words into

404
00:19:13,940 --> 00:19:11,790
a chunk of granite watching the Morton

405
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:13,950
scroll across your screen but at any

406
00:19:21,890 --> 00:19:18,210
rate I came across a forum on CompuServe

407
00:19:24,500 --> 00:19:21,900
called the issues forum and there were a

408
00:19:28,190 --> 00:19:24,510
number of files in there on various

409
00:19:32,020 --> 00:19:28,200
things like UFOs cases that at that time

410
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:32,030
or current and some cattle mutilation

411
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:35,280
files and suddenly the light went on in

412
00:19:41,090 --> 00:19:38,450
my head and I said oh my god that's

413
00:19:43,550 --> 00:19:41,100
apparently what what I had been involved

414
00:19:48,140 --> 00:19:43,560
in so that that's basically how I got my

415
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:48,150
start Wow you know there's that really

416
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:52,650
is a weird subject I've weird another

417
00:19:56,450 --> 00:19:54,690
weird thing to look into is the whole

418
00:19:57,920 --> 00:19:56,460
cattle mutilations

419
00:20:00,860 --> 00:19:57,930
you know that's come up a couple times

420
00:20:02,210 --> 00:20:00,870
on shows in the past and you know

421
00:20:04,700 --> 00:20:02,220
there's some people that have done some

422
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:04,710
great research and I thought Linda

423
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:08,490
Moulton Howe way back when did a really

424
00:20:13,610 --> 00:20:11,250
good you know a documentary on that and

425
00:20:16,310 --> 00:20:13,620
a few other people haven't investigated

426
00:20:18,110 --> 00:20:16,320
it and some people it comes back to a

427
00:20:20,450 --> 00:20:18,120
lot of people are still saying you know

428
00:20:25,070 --> 00:20:20,460
this is people that are doing this this

429
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:25,080
is you know it all comes back to its

430
00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:27,570
kind of unexplainable if you ask me the

431
00:20:34,310 --> 00:20:31,370
incisions the precision of all the

432
00:20:36,950 --> 00:20:34,320
things that are done on these animals

433
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:36,960
now you actually saw this with your own

434
00:20:43,670 --> 00:20:41,610
eyes so what was that like well I didn't

435
00:20:47,230 --> 00:20:43,680
know what it was at the time it was

436
00:20:49,910 --> 00:20:47,240
obvious that it was that it was

437
00:20:52,910 --> 00:20:49,920
intentionally done by someone or

438
00:20:56,210 --> 00:20:52,920
something now you know you bring up a

439
00:21:00,260 --> 00:20:56,220
very interesting point because this is

440
00:21:04,430 --> 00:21:00,270
something that I have I have stressed

441
00:21:06,109 --> 00:21:04,440
time and time again if this were a human

442
00:21:10,069 --> 00:21:06,119
agency there

443
00:21:14,809 --> 00:21:10,079
was conducting these mutilations okay

444
00:21:19,219 --> 00:21:14,819
you're talking about a national or even

445
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:19,229
international consortium that would have

446
00:21:25,879 --> 00:21:23,129
to be doing this why do I say that well

447
00:21:30,019 --> 00:21:25,889
it's not located to one

448
00:21:33,339 --> 00:21:30,029
just one small geographic area this has

449
00:21:35,539 --> 00:21:33,349
been nationwide it has stretched

450
00:21:39,529 --> 00:21:35,549
literally from the states of Washington

451
00:21:45,049 --> 00:21:39,539
and Oregon and Idaho and Nevada and

452
00:21:49,869 --> 00:21:45,059
Montana and Utah and Oklahoma and Texas

453
00:21:54,259 --> 00:21:49,879
I mean all across the United States and

454
00:21:58,189 --> 00:21:54,269
in all the years that those cases have

455
00:22:01,969 --> 00:21:58,199
been reported and we're going back 50 60

456
00:22:05,289 --> 00:22:01,979
or more years here's the one thing to

457
00:22:09,289 --> 00:22:05,299
keep in mind no one has ever been

458
00:22:12,249 --> 00:22:09,299
arrested or successfully prosecuted now

459
00:22:16,369 --> 00:22:12,259
I was a I was a law enforcement agent

460
00:22:19,459 --> 00:22:16,379
out here in the West and let me tell you

461
00:22:23,599 --> 00:22:19,469
when you're talking about ranchers and

462
00:22:26,719 --> 00:22:23,609
farmers that have cattle you're talking

463
00:22:30,109 --> 00:22:26,729
about huge financial investments and

464
00:22:33,889 --> 00:22:30,119
very protective to and these guys and

465
00:22:36,949 --> 00:22:33,899
women will not Brook any interference

466
00:22:40,669 --> 00:22:36,959
with their with their animals and that

467
00:22:44,989 --> 00:22:40,679
includes going out with lethal weapons

468
00:22:48,379 --> 00:22:44,999
with with rifles shotguns to defend and

469
00:22:51,049 --> 00:22:48,389
protect their animals and you know this

470
00:22:54,139 --> 00:22:51,059
is just something that I could never

471
00:22:56,329 --> 00:22:54,149
fathom would be able to be carried on as

472
00:23:00,019 --> 00:22:56,339
long as it could and if this were a

473
00:23:03,409 --> 00:23:00,029
human agency someone not get shot or

474
00:23:05,749 --> 00:23:03,419
arrested or prosecuted and it just

475
00:23:08,809 --> 00:23:05,759
hasn't happened I think I've heard the

476
00:23:12,499 --> 00:23:08,819
theory from someone that it is

477
00:23:14,989 --> 00:23:12,509
government of the government is checking

478
00:23:18,079 --> 00:23:14,999
to see what nuclear I mean radiation

479
00:23:19,970 --> 00:23:18,089
effects are having on you know

480
00:23:22,820 --> 00:23:19,980
biological entities like cop

481
00:23:24,740 --> 00:23:22,830
you know animals in areas and that's why

482
00:23:26,690 --> 00:23:24,750
they're doing it about that I'm sure

483
00:23:29,090 --> 00:23:26,700
you've heard that one too it makes it

484
00:23:31,100 --> 00:23:29,100
doesn't make any sense to me well that's

485
00:23:31,970 --> 00:23:31,110
not to say that it may have never

486
00:23:34,250 --> 00:23:31,980
happened

487
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:34,260
that is certainly it's not something I

488
00:23:41,930 --> 00:23:38,250
would throw out but it is not the only

489
00:23:45,470 --> 00:23:41,940
answer it can't be right

490
00:23:48,230 --> 00:23:45,480
and you know what are your thoughts on

491
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:48,240
it I mean you know what a lot of people

492
00:23:53,539 --> 00:23:51,890
think it's tied to the UFO you know to

493
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:53,549
extraterrestrial

494
00:23:58,430 --> 00:23:56,250
I mean it's to me I think it's just one

495
00:24:02,240 --> 00:23:58,440
of those unexplainable Zhai I don't know

496
00:24:03,919 --> 00:24:02,250
and in your research that you have done

497
00:24:06,530 --> 00:24:03,929
where there are a number of cases where

498
00:24:09,530 --> 00:24:06,540
there was a UFO sighting at the same

499
00:24:12,470 --> 00:24:09,540
time or ahead of time sure sure now I

500
00:24:15,020 --> 00:24:12,480
you know back when I was active in for

501
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:15,030
the first I'm gonna say four or five

502
00:24:22,850 --> 00:24:18,570
years that I was involved with UFO

503
00:24:26,030 --> 00:24:22,860
magazine that is what my research was

504
00:24:30,159 --> 00:24:26,040
known for was mutilations not only

505
00:24:34,909 --> 00:24:30,169
animal mutilations but also human

506
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:34,919
mutilations and I wrote a number of

507
00:24:39,590 --> 00:24:37,290
papers that can still be found on the

508
00:24:44,330 --> 00:24:39,600
web about that this is one I was when I

509
00:24:49,180 --> 00:24:44,340
was daily I was really dwell delving

510
00:24:53,450 --> 00:24:49,190
into this into this subject now the

511
00:24:57,799 --> 00:24:53,460
various theories that I have heard over

512
00:25:00,620 --> 00:24:57,809
all those years are legion for example

513
00:25:05,930 --> 00:25:00,630
one of the people that that I knew very

514
00:25:09,890 --> 00:25:05,940
well and I had a lot of chats with them

515
00:25:13,669 --> 00:25:09,900
as a matter of fact I interviewed him on

516
00:25:17,450 --> 00:25:13,679
my first in the pages of UFO magazine

517
00:25:20,930 --> 00:25:17,460
when my wife and I were publishing that

518
00:25:25,220 --> 00:25:20,940
and also when I began my broadcast

519
00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:25,230
career back in 1991 okay I had him on

520
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:29,130
the radio with me was noted author and

521
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:32,450
14 researcher John keel

522
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:38,450
now keel back in the 60s and 70s was a

523
00:25:44,039 --> 00:25:41,090
prolific author I'm sure you're aware of

524
00:25:47,859 --> 00:25:44,049
him right yes mm-hmm

525
00:25:52,060 --> 00:25:47,869
had written a book that when I first

526
00:25:54,340 --> 00:25:52,070
read about it in the mid 1970s I

527
00:25:56,830 --> 00:25:54,350
immediately went out to my local

528
00:26:00,759 --> 00:25:56,840
bookstore ordered a copy it was titled

529
00:26:03,820 --> 00:26:00,769
the Mothman Prophecies because the case

530
00:26:06,609 --> 00:26:03,830
that he was talking about took place not

531
00:26:09,879 --> 00:26:06,619
very far from where I grew up at in

532
00:26:11,889 --> 00:26:09,889
central western Pennsylvania the case

533
00:26:15,669 --> 00:26:11,899
took place in Point Pleasant West

534
00:26:17,979 --> 00:26:15,679
Virginia and the Ohio Valley which as

535
00:26:22,659 --> 00:26:17,989
the crow flies was was pretty close to

536
00:26:26,769 --> 00:26:22,669
me and I can recall at the time that

537
00:26:30,899 --> 00:26:26,779
this was ongoing hearing about it in the

538
00:26:32,940 --> 00:26:30,909
news because people were seeing a

539
00:26:34,389 --> 00:26:32,950
cryptozoological apparently a

540
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:34,399
cryptozoological

541
00:26:43,649 --> 00:26:36,970
creature that they called the Mothman

542
00:26:48,869 --> 00:26:43,659
down in that area and this creature was

543
00:26:52,779 --> 00:26:48,879
involved in scores of cases of missing

544
00:26:57,129 --> 00:26:52,789
dogs I mean and some of this stuff is

545
00:26:59,590 --> 00:26:57,139
going to sound pretty crazy but I got

546
00:27:02,379 --> 00:26:59,600
this directly from Keele and he was

547
00:27:06,899 --> 00:27:02,389
still at that time when I was talking to

548
00:27:09,549 --> 00:27:06,909
him was still flummoxed by what he had

549
00:27:13,419 --> 00:27:09,559
encountered during that period of time

550
00:27:15,820 --> 00:27:13,429
talk about strange occurrences and I

551
00:27:18,430 --> 00:27:15,830
think about it today and I'll be honest

552
00:27:23,039 --> 00:27:18,440
it still can give me a chill when I

553
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:23,049
think about it but this creature and the

554
00:27:28,570 --> 00:27:25,850
events that were happening during that

555
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:28,580
period of time included among other

556
00:27:34,529 --> 00:27:31,850
things not only missing animals

557
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:34,539
livestock and what have you

558
00:27:41,139 --> 00:27:38,690
domesticated pets but also mutilations

559
00:27:43,330 --> 00:27:41,149
and we're talking about animal you know

560
00:27:45,950 --> 00:27:43,340
cows we're talking about stuff like that

561
00:27:51,230 --> 00:27:45,960
now kill

562
00:27:53,540 --> 00:27:51,240
had a very interesting theory and he

563
00:27:56,420 --> 00:27:53,550
bounced it off me I didn't know what to

564
00:27:59,750 --> 00:27:56,430
think about it and as a matter of fact

565
00:28:05,180 --> 00:27:59,760
he had written about it in his book

566
00:28:08,470 --> 00:28:05,190
Mothman but he although originally

567
00:28:12,110 --> 00:28:08,480
considered UFOs to be potentially

568
00:28:14,740 --> 00:28:12,120
extraterrestrial finally came to the

569
00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:14,750
conclusion that they were not

570
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:18,320
extraterrestrial he coined the term

571
00:28:28,180 --> 00:28:22,170
ultra terrestrial now what what does

572
00:28:32,630 --> 00:28:28,190
that in effect mean he thought they were

573
00:28:35,180 --> 00:28:32,640
interdimensional now to me okay

574
00:28:38,030 --> 00:28:35,190
alien is alien is alien all right

575
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:38,040
whether it comes from another star

576
00:28:44,900 --> 00:28:41,850
system or another dimension or another

577
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:44,910
universe I mean I don't see you know

578
00:28:51,530 --> 00:28:49,200
what what the cymatics matter you know

579
00:28:54,460 --> 00:28:51,540
if you're talking about something that

580
00:28:59,030 --> 00:28:54,470
that is coming here from somewhere else

581
00:29:03,620 --> 00:28:59,040
but he'll came up with the theory that

582
00:29:07,370 --> 00:29:03,630
these ultra terrestrials with all this

583
00:29:13,340 --> 00:29:07,380
missing biological material animals

584
00:29:16,990 --> 00:29:13,350
blood various other items that you know

585
00:29:21,770 --> 00:29:17,000
were missing and involved in these cases

586
00:29:26,419 --> 00:29:21,780
that perhaps these entities were using

587
00:29:30,500 --> 00:29:26,429
them to construct biological entities to

588
00:29:34,460 --> 00:29:30,510
be able to operate in our domain here in

589
00:29:37,340 --> 00:29:34,470
our universe in our on our planet now

590
00:29:41,690 --> 00:29:37,350
one of the things that he used to

591
00:29:46,549 --> 00:29:41,700
support his theory were tales of the

592
00:29:50,090 --> 00:29:46,559
infamous men in black the MIB s now at

593
00:29:54,260 --> 00:29:50,100
that period of time the mi B's were not

594
00:29:59,049 --> 00:29:54,270
you know Will Smith and Tommy Tommy Lee

595
00:30:02,560 --> 00:29:59,059
Jones they were actually terrifying

596
00:30:06,970 --> 00:30:02,570
Tootie's that often showed up in the

597
00:30:10,749 --> 00:30:06,980
event the aftermath of UFO cases and in

598
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:10,759
one famous case that qu'il talked about

599
00:30:16,330 --> 00:30:13,730
in his book were some people down in

600
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:16,340
West Virginia that had had a UFO

601
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:21,490
sighting and a day or two later this

602
00:30:31,419 --> 00:30:26,450
monstrosity of a looking man showed up

603
00:30:33,430 --> 00:30:31,429
at their door a huge guy he told the

604
00:30:36,639 --> 00:30:33,440
knocked on the door and they opened it

605
00:30:38,859 --> 00:30:36,649
up and he said he was there too

606
00:30:42,430 --> 00:30:38,869
if I remember correctly and it's been a

607
00:30:44,169 --> 00:30:42,440
while since I've read Kiehl's book but

608
00:30:46,690 --> 00:30:44,179
he was there to find out if they might

609
00:30:49,869 --> 00:30:46,700
have been heirs to somebody that had

610
00:30:53,220 --> 00:30:49,879
recently died that was his excuse for

611
00:30:58,330 --> 00:30:53,230
getting in the house but his suit was

612
00:31:00,789 --> 00:30:58,340
ill-fitting the guy was was bald extra

613
00:31:04,629 --> 00:31:00,799
pale I mean he could have maybe passed

614
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:04,639
for a vampire and he came in sat down

615
00:31:11,169 --> 00:31:07,970
the pants that he was wearing rode up

616
00:31:15,159 --> 00:31:11,179
his leg and I believe it was the wife

617
00:31:20,519 --> 00:31:15,169
noticed what appeared to be a green wire

618
00:31:23,739 --> 00:31:20,529
or cable that was inserted into his leg

619
00:31:24,580 --> 00:31:23,749
now you know when you hear stories like

620
00:31:28,330 --> 00:31:24,590
that

621
00:31:31,869 --> 00:31:28,340
I mean sure at first blush you go oh

622
00:31:35,139 --> 00:31:31,879
[\h__\h] you know but the fact the

623
00:31:37,989 --> 00:31:35,149
matter was that this was not the only

624
00:31:43,359 --> 00:31:37,999
case where something like that happened

625
00:31:46,539 --> 00:31:43,369
and you know when the individual finally

626
00:31:50,799 --> 00:31:46,549
left their house and he walked outside

627
00:31:53,499 --> 00:31:50,809
he almost immediately disappeared gone I

628
00:31:56,950 --> 00:31:53,509
mean gone okay

629
00:31:58,960 --> 00:31:56,960
just like he vanished into thin air so

630
00:32:01,180 --> 00:31:58,970
there was something with a high degree

631
00:32:05,529 --> 00:32:01,190
of strangeness that was going on down

632
00:32:09,009 --> 00:32:05,539
there that keel had chronicled and of

633
00:32:11,769 --> 00:32:09,019
course he wrote oh my lord he wrote a

634
00:32:12,810 --> 00:32:11,779
number of books where he talked about

635
00:32:16,980 --> 00:32:12,820
cases

636
00:32:20,249 --> 00:32:16,990
like this and that's basically where he

637
00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:20,259
was coming from and his explanation for

638
00:32:25,710 --> 00:32:22,480
why they might have been mutilating

639
00:32:28,499 --> 00:32:25,720
these animals and taking other items

640
00:32:31,799 --> 00:32:28,509
like blood now I heard another theory

641
00:32:35,210 --> 00:32:31,809
back then about the missing blood and

642
00:32:39,019 --> 00:32:35,220
this was one of the staples in in

643
00:32:42,930 --> 00:32:39,029
mutilation cases especially with cattle

644
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:42,940
if it was a genuine mutilation almost

645
00:32:48,389 --> 00:32:45,370
invariably the blood would seemingly

646
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:48,399
disappear who was exsanguinated from the

647
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:52,330
from the carcass and there were stories

648
00:32:58,009 --> 00:32:54,370
that were floating around and even made

649
00:33:03,840 --> 00:32:58,019
it into the pages of numerous newspapers

650
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:03,850
that there was a process where bovine

651
00:33:13,409 --> 00:33:09,210
blood cattle blood okay could be used

652
00:33:17,669 --> 00:33:13,419
the the plasma at any rate in the event

653
00:33:21,810 --> 00:33:17,679
of a national emergency all right this

654
00:33:23,340 --> 00:33:21,820
could be used as a blood substitute so

655
00:33:26,249 --> 00:33:23,350
there were a lot of people with a lot of

656
00:33:28,740 --> 00:33:26,259
theories on what this all may have been

657
00:33:32,279 --> 00:33:28,750
but those were just a couple of them

658
00:33:35,879 --> 00:33:32,289
that I came across in the years well now

659
00:33:38,070 --> 00:33:35,889
let's talk about your background as in

660
00:33:40,639 --> 00:33:38,080
law enforcement because I'm sure that

661
00:33:43,379 --> 00:33:40,649
really helped you with all the type of

662
00:33:47,789 --> 00:33:43,389
the research you did in the following

663
00:33:49,950 --> 00:33:47,799
years yeah sure it did and is that how

664
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:49,960
you conduct did you conduct your these

665
00:33:54,330 --> 00:33:51,370
cases that you were researching

666
00:33:58,190 --> 00:33:54,340
basically the same way as you would in

667
00:34:01,230 --> 00:33:58,200
your profession absolutely absolutely

668
00:34:05,460 --> 00:34:01,240
over the years you know I mean that

669
00:34:08,700 --> 00:34:05,470
that's one knack if I if I can you know

670
00:34:12,149 --> 00:34:08,710
be so specific that I always thought was

671
00:34:15,270 --> 00:34:12,159
of great benefit to me over the years

672
00:34:18,089 --> 00:34:15,280
I've interviewed and investigated

673
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:18,099
hundreds and I'm not just talking about

674
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:20,050
UFOs I'm talking about when I was

675
00:34:25,649 --> 00:34:22,690
involved in in Criminal Investigations

676
00:34:28,740 --> 00:34:25,659
mm-hmm cases

677
00:34:30,990 --> 00:34:28,750
where you know we we would go out and we

678
00:34:34,859 --> 00:34:31,000
would be looking for a perpetrator to a

679
00:34:39,799 --> 00:34:34,869
crime in it they the crimes Rea ranged

680
00:34:44,549 --> 00:34:39,809
from narcotics to staffs

681
00:34:48,359 --> 00:34:44,559
robberies homicides rapes you know it's

682
00:34:51,059 --> 00:34:48,369
it's just the whole spectrum of the

683
00:34:52,529 --> 00:34:51,069
types of things that you know that cops

684
00:34:57,900 --> 00:34:52,539
come across every day

685
00:35:02,160 --> 00:34:57,910
and I'm not going to say I was a hundred

686
00:35:05,700 --> 00:35:02,170
percent always on the money but I could

687
00:35:10,740 --> 00:35:05,710
generally tell if somebody were trying

688
00:35:14,190 --> 00:35:10,750
to spin a story on me and when it came

689
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:14,200
to the UFO field that was generally a

690
00:35:20,150 --> 00:35:17,170
great benefit I'll never forget back

691
00:35:24,210 --> 00:35:20,160
when Vicky my wife Vicky who was the

692
00:35:27,420 --> 00:35:24,220
founder of UFO magazine and I were

693
00:35:31,319 --> 00:35:27,430
publishing we were our offices were in

694
00:35:35,010 --> 00:35:31,329
Sunland California and I had a very good

695
00:35:38,220 --> 00:35:35,020
friend as a matter of fact I knew many

696
00:35:42,450 --> 00:35:38,230
of the people in media television and

697
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:42,460
and and the film industry over the years

698
00:35:49,740 --> 00:35:47,170
we we knew a lot of them and a friend of

699
00:35:53,329 --> 00:35:49,750
mine who was a television producer who

700
00:35:56,910 --> 00:35:53,339
at that time was working on a

701
00:35:59,609 --> 00:35:56,920
documentary on the UFO topic and I had

702
00:36:04,589 --> 00:35:59,619
been Confed you know I had been

703
00:36:06,390 --> 00:36:04,599
contributing to to his process called me

704
00:36:08,730 --> 00:36:06,400
up and said Don he said you're not going

705
00:36:12,500 --> 00:36:08,740
to believe this he said but I just came

706
00:36:16,710 --> 00:36:12,510
across the guy who was out in the

707
00:36:20,700 --> 00:36:16,720
California desert close to the Nevada

708
00:36:26,180 --> 00:36:20,710
border and there's a very famous area

709
00:36:27,299 --> 00:36:26,190
out there Martin called Zzyzx Road okay

710
00:36:30,180 --> 00:36:27,309
hmm

711
00:36:34,260 --> 00:36:30,190
and it's a very spooky spot and a number

712
00:36:36,539 --> 00:36:34,270
of years ago excuse me my very close

713
00:36:38,580 --> 00:36:36,549
friend and Friday night co-host on my

714
00:36:41,930 --> 00:36:38,590
radio show rich Saturday and I

715
00:36:45,420 --> 00:36:41,940
had gone over to Nevada to Las Vegas on

716
00:36:49,230 --> 00:36:45,430
a thing that we were doing some

717
00:36:52,770 --> 00:36:49,240
investigation on and on the way back we

718
00:36:55,020 --> 00:36:52,780
had a rather amazing sighting we had

719
00:36:58,560 --> 00:36:55,030
pulled off on this

720
00:37:02,940 --> 00:36:58,570
Zzyzx Road for a comfort stop okay

721
00:37:05,250 --> 00:37:02,950
and we had an amazing UFO sighting out

722
00:37:09,930 --> 00:37:05,260
there this was in the middle of the

723
00:37:12,470 --> 00:37:09,940
night and in the desert it was it was

724
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:12,480
rather extraordinary but at any rate my

725
00:37:18,510 --> 00:37:16,330
producer friend told me about this guy

726
00:37:21,150 --> 00:37:18,520
that lived out in that area so I said

727
00:37:23,250 --> 00:37:21,160
well Russ I said what was the story what

728
00:37:26,310 --> 00:37:23,260
did the guy tell you he said well he

729
00:37:29,190 --> 00:37:26,320
didn't just tell me he said he gave me a

730
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:29,200
photograph and I said of what he said

731
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:32,410
well this is what the guy claimed he

732
00:37:37,770 --> 00:37:33,970
said he was sitting in his living room

733
00:37:39,630 --> 00:37:37,780
and he was watching TV and he had his

734
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:39,640
Polaroid camera there was a Polaroid

735
00:37:45,330 --> 00:37:42,610
photograph by the way you know the

736
00:37:47,580 --> 00:37:45,340
Instamatic thing yeah shot and it would

737
00:37:52,350 --> 00:37:47,590
slip out and a minute or so later you'd

738
00:37:54,450 --> 00:37:52,360
have a have a photo and he said while he

739
00:38:00,630 --> 00:37:54,460
was sitting there he thought he could

740
00:38:03,510 --> 00:38:00,640
feel eyes upon him and he said he turned

741
00:38:06,060 --> 00:38:03,520
around and looked out the window and he

742
00:38:09,630 --> 00:38:06,070
said what he told me Don was that there

743
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:09,640
was a gray alien out there staring at

744
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:13,090
him through the window and he grabbed

745
00:38:21,170 --> 00:38:15,570
the camera and he took a picture of it

746
00:38:25,110 --> 00:38:21,180
well I got to tell you my BS indicator

747
00:38:27,140 --> 00:38:25,120
started clanging and I said okay I mean

748
00:38:30,300 --> 00:38:27,150
you you never want to go into any any

749
00:38:34,140 --> 00:38:30,310
situation Martin if you're an honest

750
00:38:38,310 --> 00:38:34,150
legitimate researcher investigator and

751
00:38:41,070 --> 00:38:38,320
allow your preconceived notions okay to

752
00:38:43,830 --> 00:38:41,080
to control what you do I mean that's not

753
00:38:46,980 --> 00:38:43,840
what an investigator does now you may

754
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:46,990
have suspicions and believe me when I

755
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:50,410
heard that story I did but you you

756
00:38:54,690 --> 00:38:52,210
follow it through to conclusion

757
00:38:59,250 --> 00:38:54,700
so my buddy said I'll bring the photo

758
00:39:01,800 --> 00:38:59,260
over to you and I said okay so sure

759
00:39:05,190 --> 00:39:01,810
enough a day or so later he showed up at

760
00:39:08,910 --> 00:39:05,200
our offices came in and he handed me

761
00:39:11,510 --> 00:39:08,920
this photograph and I looked at it and

762
00:39:14,460 --> 00:39:11,520
it was kind of a blurry image and yeah

763
00:39:20,070 --> 00:39:14,470
it sure looked like a gray but that

764
00:39:25,170 --> 00:39:20,080
wasn't all on on the picture it looked

765
00:39:28,650 --> 00:39:25,180
like somebody had vomited on this

766
00:39:31,950 --> 00:39:28,660
photograph and then wiped it off I kid

767
00:39:34,380 --> 00:39:31,960
you not so I looked at Russ and I said

768
00:39:37,470 --> 00:39:34,390
Russ I said what is that stuff he said

769
00:39:39,270 --> 00:39:37,480
well he said when he he was eating a

770
00:39:41,670 --> 00:39:39,280
bowl of cereal this is what he told me

771
00:39:44,820 --> 00:39:41,680
he was eating a bowl of cereal and when

772
00:39:47,970 --> 00:39:44,830
he first looked at the photograph he

773
00:39:54,180 --> 00:39:47,980
said he was so shocked that he won and

774
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:54,190
he blew cereal on it so we took that

775
00:39:59,760 --> 00:39:57,490
photograph and Russ had some equipment I

776
00:40:02,760 --> 00:39:59,770
had some equipment we started examining

777
00:40:05,339 --> 00:40:02,770
this and I said well I want to talk to

778
00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:05,349
this guy and he said well he said he

779
00:40:08,339 --> 00:40:06,730
didn't want to talk to you he said I

780
00:40:10,380 --> 00:40:08,349
told him that I was gonna bring it over

781
00:40:12,540 --> 00:40:10,390
to you but he doesn't want to talk to

782
00:40:17,730 --> 00:40:12,550
you and I said why not well he doesn't

783
00:40:21,290 --> 00:40:17,740
want the notoriety oh okay so we

784
00:40:26,570 --> 00:40:21,300
examined this photograph and there was a

785
00:40:31,700 --> 00:40:26,580
magazine that somebody had sent us at

786
00:40:37,710 --> 00:40:31,710
the UFO OPS's and this magazine was a

787
00:40:40,770 --> 00:40:37,720
professional oil industry magazine okay

788
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:40,780
for the oil industry now the reason they

789
00:40:50,750 --> 00:40:45,810
sent us the magazine was because inside

790
00:40:55,130 --> 00:40:50,760
this issue okay they had a full-page ad

791
00:41:02,870 --> 00:40:55,140
now remember this we're talking about

792
00:41:05,819 --> 00:41:02,880
92-93 UFOs were still fresh exciting

793
00:41:10,759 --> 00:41:05,829
every week on television you could

794
00:41:16,650 --> 00:41:10,769
9 3 2 5 6 programs with the UFO theme I

795
00:41:20,299 --> 00:41:16,660
mean it was really the the wrench that

796
00:41:28,069 --> 00:41:20,309
was driving the media scene back then

797
00:41:32,599 --> 00:41:28,079
shows like Oprah Winfrey Larry King Live

798
00:41:36,390 --> 00:41:32,609
you know Inside Edition sightings

799
00:41:40,019 --> 00:41:36,400
encounters a hard copy all these

800
00:41:46,109 --> 00:41:40,029
programs continuously for almost a

801
00:41:48,569 --> 00:41:46,119
decade ran UFO topics every week so a

802
00:41:52,799 --> 00:41:48,579
lot of people were excited about it and

803
00:41:56,130 --> 00:41:52,809
a lot of you know a lot of chatter was

804
00:42:00,719 --> 00:41:56,140
was out there in TV land

805
00:42:07,769 --> 00:42:00,729
well this oil industry magazine had this

806
00:42:12,529 --> 00:42:07,779
full-page ad which used the UFO ET theme

807
00:42:16,859 --> 00:42:12,539
in this ad and I mean they had on the

808
00:42:20,729 --> 00:42:16,869
photograph a large representation of a

809
00:42:24,749 --> 00:42:20,739
typical gray alien and I looked at that

810
00:42:28,079 --> 00:42:24,759
picture I'm talking about in the

811
00:42:30,930 --> 00:42:28,089
magazine and I looked at this this

812
00:42:35,189 --> 00:42:30,940
photograph that Russ had brought to me

813
00:42:38,609 --> 00:42:35,199
and they were identical this guy was

814
00:42:41,939 --> 00:42:38,619
trying to float a hoax where he

815
00:42:44,069 --> 00:42:41,949
apparently had a copy of that got the

816
00:42:46,799 --> 00:42:44,079
alien out of it okay

817
00:42:51,420 --> 00:42:46,809
then threw some screens or something

818
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:51,430
shot this Polaroid photograph and I mean

819
00:42:56,009 --> 00:42:53,170
you know those are the kind of things

820
00:42:59,519 --> 00:42:56,019
that that you run into all the time and

821
00:43:02,189 --> 00:42:59,529
but we were able to bust it at the

822
00:43:03,989 --> 00:43:02,199
source and then I had my answer why this

823
00:43:06,180 --> 00:43:03,999
guy didn't even want to talk to me on

824
00:43:09,959 --> 00:43:06,190
the on the telephone much less meet me

825
00:43:13,469 --> 00:43:09,969
so Wow that's the kind of stuff that we

826
00:43:16,229 --> 00:43:13,479
would do and you know we we would bust

827
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:16,239
yeah well that that is an amazing one

828
00:43:21,750 --> 00:43:19,570
and let's talk about when you

829
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:21,760
the magazine what that was like I mean

830
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:24,130
that's that is grueling with deadlines

831
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:27,010
and everything isn't it oh yeah yeah it

832
00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:31,210
sure was but I'll tell you it was one of

833
00:43:37,290 --> 00:43:33,730
the jobs the few jobs in my life that I

834
00:43:40,230 --> 00:43:37,300
actually I looked forward to bouncing

835
00:43:43,470 --> 00:43:40,240
out of bed in the morning and going to

836
00:43:46,380 --> 00:43:43,480
work because it was fascinating hmm

837
00:43:50,100 --> 00:43:46,390
not only did I get a chance to meet

838
00:43:54,780 --> 00:43:50,110
literally people from all over the globe

839
00:43:58,380 --> 00:43:54,790
all around the world okay but some of

840
00:44:01,380 --> 00:43:58,390
the most fascinating cases and some of

841
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:01,390
the most fascinating hoaxes you could

842
00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:06,130
ever hope to encounter Wow and so this

843
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:09,250
is going back you know kind of like the

844
00:44:15,690 --> 00:44:12,850
during the birth of the internet about

845
00:44:20,010 --> 00:44:15,700
that same time isn't it so oh yeah yeah

846
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:20,020
and you know I'd like to talk I don't

847
00:44:24,690 --> 00:44:21,490
know if that's gonna be this hour in X

848
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:24,700
hour about you know all the UFO hoaxes

849
00:44:32,190 --> 00:44:29,530
on YouTube it's almost it's almost we

850
00:44:34,890 --> 00:44:32,200
I've talked to actually other old

851
00:44:37,380 --> 00:44:34,900
longtime researchers about this and

852
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:37,390
forming a group that would basically

853
00:44:44,970 --> 00:44:41,890
call out hoaxes and that would be that

854
00:44:48,300 --> 00:44:44,980
would be very difficult to do especially

855
00:44:52,980 --> 00:44:48,310
these days as we've all been watching

856
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:52,990
technology grow and grow and CGI and and

857
00:44:58,140 --> 00:44:56,530
then in today's world it's harder and

858
00:45:00,690 --> 00:44:58,150
harder as what I'm I'm getting yeah

859
00:45:02,570 --> 00:45:00,700
here's the bottom line on a lot of that

860
00:45:07,700 --> 00:45:02,580
yes you are correct

861
00:45:10,950 --> 00:45:07,710
CGI today is in some cases almost

862
00:45:13,890 --> 00:45:10,960
indistinguishable from reality but

863
00:45:19,590 --> 00:45:13,900
here's something else and I've heard

864
00:45:25,610 --> 00:45:19,600
very few people mention this okay I was

865
00:45:30,870 --> 00:45:25,620
involved in a case back in the very late

866
00:45:34,019 --> 00:45:30,880
1980s very very early 1990s

867
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:34,029
that in that was involved and ended up

868
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:38,170
being the f-117 stealth fighter case all

869
00:45:50,549 --> 00:45:43,450
right now one of the people that that I

870
00:45:54,329 --> 00:45:50,559
knew then and was an invaluable source

871
00:45:57,150 --> 00:45:54,339
of technology was a guy that worked for

872
00:46:01,410 --> 00:45:57,160
Aerojet well an aerospace company out

873
00:46:06,809 --> 00:46:01,420
here in Southern California and this guy

874
00:46:11,309 --> 00:46:06,819
had a B of his bonnet about the UFO

875
00:46:14,370 --> 00:46:11,319
thing and he was continuously snowing

876
00:46:17,819 --> 00:46:14,380
the DoD and the Air Force and other

877
00:46:26,279 --> 00:46:17,829
government agencies including the CIA

878
00:46:30,349 --> 00:46:26,289
and the NSA with FOIA requests I mean a

879
00:46:36,029 --> 00:46:30,359
literal snowstorm that went on for years

880
00:46:39,539 --> 00:46:36,039
and this was a case that that I broke in

881
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:39,549
the pages of UFO magazine and on my

882
00:46:45,420 --> 00:46:41,890
original radio show

883
00:46:50,430 --> 00:46:45,430
UFOs tonight which was on the CRN

884
00:46:55,339 --> 00:46:50,440
Network okay and what they did they

885
00:46:59,480 --> 00:46:55,349
being the government set this guy up

886
00:47:03,900 --> 00:46:59,490
with an Air Force general incommunicado

887
00:47:08,670 --> 00:47:03,910
and an FBI agent came to his place of

888
00:47:11,249 --> 00:47:08,680
business deliberately exposed him to

889
00:47:14,039 --> 00:47:11,259
classified information that he did not

890
00:47:19,259 --> 00:47:14,049
have a need to know and then tried to

891
00:47:24,890 --> 00:47:19,269
get him fired okay now it involved the

892
00:47:27,980 --> 00:47:24,900
f-117 just before the f-117 went public

893
00:47:33,059 --> 00:47:27,990
so I guess they felt safe in doing that

894
00:47:37,259 --> 00:47:33,069
now this is the kind of stuff the red

895
00:47:39,690 --> 00:47:37,269
meat that I sunk my teeth in now when I

896
00:47:42,539 --> 00:47:39,700
was in the military okay

897
00:47:44,610 --> 00:47:42,549
I was a Vietnam veteran I was in the

898
00:47:47,220 --> 00:47:44,620
military I was involved in military

899
00:47:50,250 --> 00:47:47,230
intelligence I had a top secret

900
00:47:53,340 --> 00:47:50,260
clearance with a crypto access now all

901
00:47:58,920 --> 00:47:53,350
that meant was in the course of my

902
00:48:02,550 --> 00:47:58,930
duties if I had a need to know certain

903
00:48:06,030 --> 00:48:02,560
classified information I could be given

904
00:48:09,510 --> 00:48:06,040
that classified information because it

905
00:48:13,350 --> 00:48:09,520
was involved in whatever it was I was

906
00:48:17,460 --> 00:48:13,360
doing however if I did not have a need

907
00:48:20,630 --> 00:48:17,470
to know then that TSC clearance meant no

908
00:48:23,820 --> 00:48:20,640
more to me than it would do you okay

909
00:48:25,410 --> 00:48:23,830
in other words if I didn't have I need

910
00:48:30,260 --> 00:48:25,420
to know I wouldn't be shown the

911
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:30,270
information that cut-and-dried now the

912
00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:34,570
f-117 was actually an aircraft that had

913
00:48:45,860 --> 00:48:36,730
its development all the way back in the

914
00:48:49,620 --> 00:48:45,870
1970s now my point is that aircraft

915
00:48:54,540 --> 00:48:49,630
technology what we see flying around in

916
00:49:00,080 --> 00:48:54,550
the skies any day of the week ok if you

917
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:00,090
think that that is the cutting edge that

918
00:49:05,250 --> 00:49:03,610
aerospace is working on then I'm going

919
00:49:07,350 --> 00:49:05,260
to let you go back to you to your

920
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:07,360
correspondence with the Easter Bunny and

921
00:49:14,970 --> 00:49:11,770
Santa Claus because anything that we see

922
00:49:19,710 --> 00:49:14,980
flying the cutting edge and you can take

923
00:49:24,270 --> 00:49:19,720
this to the bank is at least 30 years or

924
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:24,280
more in advance of what you're seeing my

925
00:49:29,510 --> 00:49:25,090
god

926
00:49:33,230 --> 00:49:29,520
the sr-71 the Blackbird ok the aircraft

927
00:49:39,470 --> 00:49:33,240
that I used to watch flying out of

928
00:49:45,270 --> 00:49:39,480
Okinawa ok to go to North Vietnam China

929
00:49:48,930 --> 00:49:45,280
Korea ok was an aircraft that's still

930
00:49:51,270 --> 00:49:48,940
today officially its speed record or its

931
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:51,280
height that it could fly at has never

932
00:49:58,470 --> 00:49:54,690
been broken although I'm sure it has but

933
00:50:01,260 --> 00:49:58,480
officially this aircraft is still

934
00:50:03,780 --> 00:50:01,270
faster higher than anything else flying

935
00:50:07,050 --> 00:50:03,790
that was developed in the 1950s

936
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:07,060
now do you honestly believe that that

937
00:50:13,590 --> 00:50:10,930
was the cutting edge I mean and that was

938
00:50:16,500 --> 00:50:13,600
all the way back then what we have today

939
00:50:18,810 --> 00:50:16,510
for all I know they're working on an

940
00:50:22,370 --> 00:50:18,820
interstellar Drive you see what I'm

941
00:50:25,099 --> 00:50:22,380
saying so what we see in the sky today

942
00:50:29,010 --> 00:50:25,109
it's really hard to make that

943
00:50:32,700 --> 00:50:29,020
distinction between what we could be

944
00:50:35,340 --> 00:50:32,710
flying and what somebody else is flying

945
00:50:36,810 --> 00:50:35,350
now I heard what what you're your

946
00:50:41,099 --> 00:50:36,820
co-host there at the beginning of the

947
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:41,109
program was talking about triangles cram

948
00:50:47,130 --> 00:50:44,410
it's flying around lots of them there

949
00:50:52,230 --> 00:50:47,140
have been triangle craft that has been

950
00:50:56,070 --> 00:50:52,240
flying around for 30 plus years in the

951
00:50:58,590 --> 00:50:56,080
skies above above the United States and

952
00:51:03,930 --> 00:50:58,600
other places around the world and these

953
00:51:07,950 --> 00:51:03,940
craft and I was still 15 years ago on

954
00:51:12,359 --> 00:51:07,960
good authority that these were extremely

955
00:51:16,950 --> 00:51:12,369
advanced military flying machines that

956
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:16,960
the US Armed Forces were flying now is

957
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:19,410
that the bottom line no of course not

958
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:23,410
perhaps they saw something in the sky at

959
00:51:30,500 --> 00:51:26,410
one point and they tried to emulate it I

960
00:51:33,210 --> 00:51:30,510
mean that's always possible also but

961
00:51:36,540 --> 00:51:33,220
anything that you see flying that you

962
00:51:40,859 --> 00:51:36,550
think might be alien well you know these

963
00:51:42,810 --> 00:51:40,869
days it's really hard to say right the

964
00:51:46,470 --> 00:51:42,820
one thing that is very puzzling

965
00:51:48,780 --> 00:51:46,480
of course you you can hear people talk

966
00:51:51,780 --> 00:51:48,790
about they've already discovered an

967
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:51,790
antigravity you know vehicle that's why

968
00:51:55,500 --> 00:51:53,530
that's not making any noise but that is

969
00:51:57,420 --> 00:51:55,510
the curious thing there's a lot of

970
00:52:02,430 --> 00:51:57,430
people that talk about these triangles

971
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:02,440
that see them fairly close or as far as

972
00:52:07,620 --> 00:52:04,450
I know mostly say that they hear no

973
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:07,630
noise at all yeah well I mean that I'm

974
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:12,130
not surprised by that I mean the techno

975
00:52:20,220 --> 00:52:16,890
oh gee look look at our defense budget

976
00:52:24,270 --> 00:52:20,230
yearly mmm I'm talking about I'm talking

977
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:24,280
about what is publicly discussed right

978
00:52:31,380 --> 00:52:26,610
I'm not talking about the black budget

979
00:52:36,300 --> 00:52:31,390
okay that is explained away with $5,000

980
00:52:38,370 --> 00:52:36,310
toilet seats and $3,500 hammers you know

981
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:38,380
and a thousand-dollar screwdriver you

982
00:52:45,270 --> 00:52:41,410
know what I'm saying right so you know

983
00:52:49,140 --> 00:52:45,280
what the black budget I mean I go I go

984
00:52:53,750 --> 00:52:49,150
all the way back to 1988 when George

985
00:52:57,500 --> 00:52:53,760
Knapp broke the first story on area 51

986
00:52:58,770 --> 00:52:57,510
publicly okay and the Bob Lazar saga

987
00:53:02,880 --> 00:52:58,780
okay

988
00:53:06,110 --> 00:53:02,890
Lazar claimed was out there in those in

989
00:53:10,020 --> 00:53:06,120
those mountains in underground hangars

990
00:53:11,850 --> 00:53:10,030
is something like that possible well as

991
00:53:15,150 --> 00:53:11,860
far as I'm concerned you bet it's

992
00:53:17,850 --> 00:53:15,160
possible all right and I was was

993
00:53:21,870 --> 00:53:17,860
involved with that story almost since

994
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:21,880
the very beginning of it and I couldn't

995
00:53:28,500 --> 00:53:23,410
tell you how many times I've talked to

996
00:53:31,950 --> 00:53:28,510
Knapp and also Lazar about that

997
00:53:33,900 --> 00:53:31,960
particular story but the bottom line to

998
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:33,910
take away from that whether you believe

999
00:53:40,190 --> 00:53:37,690
it or not is the fact that if the

1000
00:53:44,810 --> 00:53:40,200
government had their hands on something

1001
00:53:47,970 --> 00:53:44,820
believe me that's how they would do it

1002
00:53:49,290 --> 00:53:47,980
very well could be you know up on the

1003
00:53:51,390 --> 00:53:49,300
message board it's gonna be changing

1004
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:51,400
gears a little and then we're almost at

1005
00:53:56,220 --> 00:53:54,010
the top of the hour we got about six or

1006
00:53:58,610 --> 00:53:56,230
seven minutes or something like that but

1007
00:54:03,060 --> 00:53:58,620
someone wanted to find out what your

1008
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:03,070
relationship is or was with the burns

1009
00:54:08,070 --> 00:54:05,410
they number of people we're asking on

1010
00:54:09,180 --> 00:54:08,080
the chat room what do you mean that's I

1011
00:54:10,620 --> 00:54:09,190
don't know exactly what they're talking

1012
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:10,630
about I guess I had to do with the UFO

1013
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:14,530
magazine how did did you change you you

1014
00:54:21,270 --> 00:54:16,450
sold that basically or got out of it and

1015
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:21,280
they took it over no no okay I got that

1016
00:54:24,730 --> 00:54:22,330
wrong I'm sorry go ahead

1017
00:54:30,609 --> 00:54:24,740
19 1997

1018
00:54:32,589 --> 00:54:30,619
Oh my wife and I okay after 11 years of

1019
00:54:35,260 --> 00:54:32,599
publishing the magazine we ran into

1020
00:54:40,210 --> 00:54:35,270
financial problems now the publishing

1021
00:54:44,020 --> 00:54:40,220
game is a very hard game okay and you've

1022
00:54:46,240 --> 00:54:44,030
got to have a lot of income because the

1023
00:54:50,950 --> 00:54:46,250
money that you're making is not the

1024
00:54:55,720 --> 00:54:50,960
money from the last issue published okay

1025
00:54:58,300 --> 00:54:55,730
you get a magazine out all right it goes

1026
00:55:01,240 --> 00:54:58,310
out to the distributor's then it goes

1027
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:01,250
out to wherever the the subscribers it

1028
00:55:06,940 --> 00:55:03,050
goes out to the places where it's

1029
00:55:10,510 --> 00:55:06,950
distributed and you don't see any money

1030
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:10,520
of that for at least the next two to

1031
00:55:16,420 --> 00:55:13,970
three issues so you're always running on

1032
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:16,430
fumes you see what I'm saying oh yeah

1033
00:55:21,849 --> 00:55:18,970
the bottom line the bottom line was by

1034
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:21,859
97 we were financially at the breaking

1035
00:55:31,990 --> 00:55:27,890
point now we knew bill birnes bill was

1036
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:32,000
very interested in not seeing UFO

1037
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:35,810
magazine wander he introduced us to some

1038
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:41,170
media people in the Hollywood arena okay

1039
00:55:48,310 --> 00:55:43,970
so we took some meetings with them went

1040
00:55:49,240 --> 00:55:48,320
down and they took over the publication

1041
00:55:52,900 --> 00:55:49,250
all right

1042
00:55:55,839 --> 00:55:52,910
and kept Vicky on is the editor I was on

1043
00:55:58,660 --> 00:55:55,849
as the director of research bill was

1044
00:56:02,339 --> 00:55:58,670
listed as a publisher although at that

1045
00:56:07,180 --> 00:56:02,349
time he did not have any financial

1046
00:56:10,630 --> 00:56:07,190
considerations in it well they kept it

1047
00:56:13,660 --> 00:56:10,640
up for five years and incidentally these

1048
00:56:18,010 --> 00:56:13,670
people even though Vicky my wife and I

1049
00:56:23,220 --> 00:56:18,020
had been reading this for 10 11 years

1050
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:23,230
all right never wanted any input from us

1051
00:56:29,500 --> 00:56:27,170
not any input I couldn't tell you how

1052
00:56:32,109 --> 00:56:29,510
many times we would go in there with

1053
00:56:34,570 --> 00:56:32,119
some ideas to do this that or something

1054
00:56:36,849 --> 00:56:34,580
else and what gets shot down so I said

1055
00:56:38,470 --> 00:56:36,859
fine you know that's I mean they're

1056
00:56:41,580 --> 00:56:38,480
they're footing the bills

1057
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:41,590
okay let him do it well after five years

1058
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:45,650
they basically said well we've lost too

1059
00:56:54,550 --> 00:56:49,130
much money we're going to shut the

1060
00:56:58,359 --> 00:56:54,560
magazine down however if you and Vicky

1061
00:57:00,870 --> 00:56:58,369
and Bill and his wife want to take it

1062
00:57:06,359 --> 00:57:00,880
over we'll allow you to keep publishing

1063
00:57:10,990 --> 00:57:06,369
well we did up until about 2006 however

1064
00:57:13,690 --> 00:57:11,000
up to that point it was becoming

1065
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:13,700
increasingly harder and harder to work

1066
00:57:22,750 --> 00:57:17,330
with Bill and his wife Nancy and quite

1067
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:22,760
frankly Nancy and I had clashed on a

1068
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:26,570
couple of occasions over inconsequential

1069
00:57:33,460 --> 00:57:29,090
things I'm not going to go into that but

1070
00:57:37,150 --> 00:57:33,470
finally I just had my fill of it my wife

1071
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:37,160
after 20 years had her fill of it

1072
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:41,330
and we bailed out okay

1073
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:45,050
in 2006 the very beginning of 2007 and

1074
00:57:52,570 --> 00:57:48,050
the burns took it on they were going to

1075
00:58:00,160 --> 00:57:52,580
be the sole publishers well they kept

1076
00:58:03,070 --> 00:58:00,170
missing deadlines and the the copy of

1077
00:58:05,230 --> 00:58:03,080
the of the magazine for the next few

1078
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:05,240
issues they didn't have any proof

1079
00:58:11,830 --> 00:58:08,330
readers or if they did they were missing

1080
00:58:13,270 --> 00:58:11,840
stuff all the time in the proofing of

1081
00:58:16,359 --> 00:58:13,280
the magazine there were a lot of

1082
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:16,369
egregious errors that popped up and here

1083
00:58:24,099 --> 00:58:19,730
was the other thing as you can tell I

1084
00:58:31,060 --> 00:58:24,109
was pretty factually oriented and I gave

1085
00:58:34,030 --> 00:58:31,070
short shrift to a lot of these let me

1086
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:34,040
let me think of a very polite way to say

1087
00:58:41,109 --> 00:58:36,770
it these pie-in-the-sky unicorn

1088
00:58:45,700 --> 00:58:41,119
searching so-called UFO researchers and

1089
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:45,710
they began running a lot of copy in the

1090
00:58:52,300 --> 00:58:48,970
magazine that I found particularly

1091
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:52,310
offensive and when I say offense

1092
00:58:59,830 --> 00:58:56,050
I'm talking about cases that had been

1093
00:59:02,530 --> 00:58:59,840
disproven years before that suddenly

1094
00:59:07,620 --> 00:59:02,540
started popping up now I attributed that

1095
00:59:12,310 --> 00:59:07,630
to the fact that bill was an academic

1096
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:12,320
okay Nancy who who really fancied

1097
00:59:20,740 --> 00:59:16,730
herself as an ace publisher just quite

1098
00:59:23,410 --> 00:59:20,750
simply didn't know the field like Vicki

1099
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:23,420
and I had and they would have things in

1100
00:59:31,420 --> 00:59:27,730
there routinely like the Dulce base

1101
00:59:35,230 --> 00:59:31,430
shootout now that's a story that goes

1102
00:59:39,910 --> 00:59:35,240
back basically to Paul bennewitz right

1103
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:39,920
could be a whole show or series of shows

1104
00:59:47,620 --> 00:59:44,090
in itself know where this poor guy was

1105
00:59:50,970 --> 00:59:47,630
dissin formed to the point where he

1106
00:59:54,100 --> 00:59:50,980
ended up in a mental hospital by

1107
00:59:57,910 --> 00:59:54,110
government disinformation agents and I

1108
01:00:00,840 --> 00:59:57,920
don't say that in a throwaway manner I'm

1109
01:00:04,150 --> 01:00:00,850
talking about actual disinformation

1110
01:00:07,290 --> 01:00:04,160
agents all right one of them named Rick

1111
01:00:12,940 --> 01:00:07,300
Doty right who's with AF OSI at the time

1112
01:00:15,610 --> 01:00:12,950
now these cases were proven hoaxes but

1113
01:00:18,490 --> 01:00:15,620
they were now making it in pages of UFO

1114
01:00:21,580 --> 01:00:18,500
magazine and I got to be honest - I was

1115
01:00:23,170 --> 01:00:21,590
not quiet about it all right when

1116
01:00:24,700 --> 01:00:23,180
something like that would happen I

1117
01:00:28,630 --> 01:00:24,710
probably should have kept my mouth shut

1118
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:28,640
but I couldn't okay because I saw what

1119
01:00:37,990 --> 01:00:32,210
had been our baby going to hell and then

1120
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:38,000
Nancy decided to take a year off and not

1121
01:00:44,500 --> 01:00:40,250
publish the magazine even though they

1122
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:44,510
were still taking subscriptions okay

1123
01:00:46,870 --> 01:00:46,130
from people that were expecting a

1124
01:00:49,780 --> 01:00:46,880
magazine

1125
01:00:52,060 --> 01:00:49,790
she took a year off to write a novel and

1126
01:00:55,290 --> 01:00:52,070
not long after that the whole thing

1127
01:00:58,510 --> 01:00:55,300
folded so there it is well nutshell

1128
01:00:59,680 --> 01:00:58,520
thank you for that done and and we're

1129
01:01:01,150 --> 01:00:59,690
right at the top of the hour we're gonna

1130
01:01:03,790 --> 01:01:01,160
take a break here in a second in the

1131
01:01:05,230 --> 01:01:03,800
second hour I'd like to talk to you more

1132
01:01:09,250 --> 01:01:05,240
about how

1133
01:01:13,330 --> 01:01:09,260
a lot of times the myths become seeming

1134
01:01:14,830 --> 01:01:13,340
realities and and why people get fed up

1135
01:01:16,570 --> 01:01:14,840
in this field I want to talk about that

1136
01:01:18,580 --> 01:01:16,580
in the second hour so if you're

1137
01:01:20,830 --> 01:01:18,590
listening live we'll be right back

1138
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:20,840
hang in there right after this quick

1139
01:01:58,950 --> 01:01:57,569
okay we're on live with Don Ecker again

1140
01:01:59,849 --> 01:01:58,960
if you'd like to call in the show and

1141
01:02:06,780 --> 01:01:59,859
ask a question

1142
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:06,790
it is 603 967 403 oh and if you'd like

1143
01:02:15,630 --> 01:02:10,450
to connect to us on on skype it's Marty

1144
01:02:18,540 --> 01:02:15,640
Willis and that's ma RT y WI ll is for

1145
01:02:20,430 --> 01:02:18,550
Skype and you can also jump in the

1146
01:02:21,990 --> 01:02:20,440
chatroom if you're live and if you're

1147
01:02:25,260 --> 01:02:22,000
listening live I know you're live

1148
01:02:29,609 --> 01:02:25,270
yeah but you can jump in the chatroom

1149
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:29,619
and ask a question there so let's let's

1150
01:02:35,940 --> 01:02:34,210
talk a little more about I've seen this

1151
01:02:38,730 --> 01:02:35,950
happen in the short time I've been

1152
01:02:41,700 --> 01:02:38,740
around really focusing on this field

1153
01:02:45,260 --> 01:02:41,710
which is only since around 2006 or so

1154
01:02:49,500 --> 01:02:45,270
I've seen a lot of times where say

1155
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:49,510
someone that is you and I chatted

1156
01:02:54,870 --> 01:02:50,730
quickly about this this afternoon

1157
01:02:57,420 --> 01:02:54,880
someone that say they have a book on a

1158
01:02:58,770 --> 01:02:57,430
certain case and so they've made a

1159
01:03:00,059 --> 01:02:58,780
little bit of money you know books

1160
01:03:01,470 --> 01:03:00,069
really don't make a lot of money but

1161
01:03:03,089 --> 01:03:01,480
they made some money but they're

1162
01:03:06,359 --> 01:03:03,099
dedicated to that case and then they

1163
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:06,369
they go to different conferences and

1164
01:03:11,670 --> 01:03:09,010
that's their baby they talk about it and

1165
01:03:14,010 --> 01:03:11,680
then all of a sudden sudden some

1166
01:03:19,170 --> 01:03:14,020
evidence comes up that the whole thing

1167
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:19,180
was explainable or maybe even a hoax or

1168
01:03:24,690 --> 01:03:21,010
something like that and they have a real

1169
01:03:26,490 --> 01:03:24,700
hard time letting go I want to I'm sure

1170
01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:26,500
you've seen this and I want to talk

1171
01:03:34,740 --> 01:03:30,690
about why this seems to happen a lot

1172
01:03:38,819 --> 01:03:34,750
absolutely and all you got to do is go

1173
01:03:41,390 --> 01:03:38,829
back to the 90s to the x-files remember

1174
01:03:46,349 --> 01:03:41,400
the extra David Duchovny and Gillian

1175
01:03:51,150 --> 01:03:46,359
Anderson and in agent Fox Mulder's FBI

1176
01:03:54,690 --> 01:03:51,160
office was a pollster on his wall with

1177
01:04:00,030 --> 01:03:54,700
the billy meier flying saucer with the

1178
01:04:03,859 --> 01:04:00,040
caption I want to believe I want to

1179
01:04:08,059 --> 01:04:03,869
believe that's your answer right there

1180
01:04:12,559 --> 01:04:08,069
this field if nothing else believe me

1181
01:04:16,430 --> 01:04:12,569
you've got to be flexible if new

1182
01:04:19,839 --> 01:04:16,440
information surfaces new factual

1183
01:04:23,809 --> 01:04:19,849
information that prove that the

1184
01:04:29,390 --> 01:04:23,819
assumption you were working on is all

1185
01:04:32,690 --> 01:04:29,400
wrong is wet is not tenable anymore you

1186
01:04:35,349 --> 01:04:32,700
have to be willing to discard that and

1187
01:04:38,359 --> 01:04:35,359
work with the new information and people

1188
01:04:42,739 --> 01:04:38,369
enlarge are not willing to do that they

1189
01:04:46,309 --> 01:04:42,749
have too much of themselves too much of

1190
01:04:49,430 --> 01:04:46,319
their ego too much of their personal

1191
01:04:52,279 --> 01:04:49,440
belief system embedded in these things

1192
01:04:55,249 --> 01:04:52,289
there's a guy on on the circuit he's a

1193
01:04:58,430 --> 01:04:55,259
perennial been around forever by the

1194
01:05:02,839 --> 01:04:58,440
name of Mike horn who a proponent of the

1195
01:05:06,319 --> 01:05:02,849
Billy Meyer cult going back god only

1196
01:05:08,870 --> 01:05:06,329
knows how many years that will you know

1197
01:05:11,569 --> 01:05:08,880
get up and he'll argue with anybody that

1198
01:05:14,450 --> 01:05:11,579
the Maier material is real it's real

1199
01:05:17,059 --> 01:05:14,460
it's real it's real and just interrupt

1200
01:05:19,370 --> 01:05:17,069
you for a quick second he has tried to

1201
01:05:20,059 --> 01:05:19,380
invite himself on this show on a number

1202
01:05:23,630 --> 01:05:20,069
of times

1203
01:05:27,859 --> 01:05:23,640
and I almost accept it just to just to

1204
01:05:30,559 --> 01:05:27,869
hear it but I actually asked him not you

1205
01:05:33,559 --> 01:05:30,569
know I didn't invite him on but he has

1206
01:05:35,749 --> 01:05:33,569
contacted us about yeah well three four

1207
01:05:37,759 --> 01:05:35,759
times he was in my back pocket and then

1208
01:05:40,190 --> 01:05:37,769
he tried to get on by trying to insult

1209
01:05:44,509 --> 01:05:40,200
me and I just said look pal let me tell

1210
01:05:47,210 --> 01:05:44,519
you how it is no okay no and that was

1211
01:05:49,670 --> 01:05:47,220
the end of it but here's here's a case

1212
01:05:52,489 --> 01:05:49,680
and believe me Mike horn is not the only

1213
01:05:56,599 --> 01:05:52,499
guy but here's a case where you know

1214
01:06:00,470 --> 01:05:56,609
regardless of how much factual

1215
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:00,480
information documentation evidence that

1216
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:03,410
you throw at them that this case is not

1217
01:06:10,549 --> 01:06:06,930
tenable he'll never accept it he has too

1218
01:06:13,089 --> 01:06:10,559
much invested in it and that's been one

1219
01:06:17,599 --> 01:06:13,099
of the problems all across the spectrum

1220
01:06:21,829 --> 01:06:17,609
one of the first one of the very first

1221
01:06:26,829 --> 01:06:21,839
exposes that I did in the pages of UFO

1222
01:06:31,190 --> 01:06:26,839
magazine was a guy at the time that was

1223
01:06:34,099 --> 01:06:31,200
extraordinarily hot on the circuit fella

1224
01:06:36,940 --> 01:06:34,109
by the name of Milton William Cooper now

1225
01:06:38,710 --> 01:06:36,950
bill Cooper as he was commonly known

1226
01:06:44,210 --> 01:06:38,720
okay

1227
01:06:47,839 --> 01:06:44,220
had a long and colorful career and would

1228
01:06:51,079 --> 01:06:47,849
make a flip-flop at a seconds notice

1229
01:06:53,779 --> 01:06:51,089
when he first surfaced in July of 1988

1230
01:06:56,720 --> 01:06:53,789
he surfaced on the old perronnette

1231
01:07:01,220 --> 01:06:56,730
computer information service okay which

1232
01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:01,230
was basically for all those those much

1233
01:07:10,819 --> 01:07:05,690
newer people out here was the petri dish

1234
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:10,829
that you now are inhabiting this was

1235
01:07:18,799 --> 01:07:13,410
before the open free internet this was a

1236
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:18,809
BBS system that scanned the globe all

1237
01:07:26,029 --> 01:07:21,930
across the United States in Europe in

1238
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:26,039
Australia in Japan my god even in Russia

1239
01:07:33,319 --> 01:07:30,210
were perronnette notes and back in the

1240
01:07:36,710 --> 01:07:33,329
day that's how all these cases were

1241
01:07:40,519 --> 01:07:36,720
being sent around exposed to the public

1242
01:07:44,239 --> 01:07:40,529
and being discussed now he came on

1243
01:07:46,819 --> 01:07:44,249
that's that system on the original

1244
01:07:50,059 --> 01:07:46,829
perronnette note down in Fountain Hills

1245
01:07:51,710 --> 01:07:50,069
Arizona the incidentally perronnette was

1246
01:07:52,519 --> 01:07:51,720
started by a guy by the name of Jim

1247
01:07:55,549 --> 01:07:52,529
speiser

1248
01:08:00,170 --> 01:07:55,559
who later a year or two later turned it

1249
01:08:06,009 --> 01:08:00,180
over to Michael Corbin okay who was

1250
01:08:09,519 --> 01:08:06,019
another name known years later as a

1251
01:08:15,550 --> 01:08:09,529
radio host that really took on a lot of

1252
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:15,560
conspiratorial topics on his show but

1253
01:08:24,590 --> 01:08:19,650
the original story came out that in 1966

1254
01:08:30,260 --> 01:08:24,600
Cooper as a u.s. naval sailor on board a

1255
01:08:31,049 --> 01:08:30,270
diesel submarine the USS Cairo was on

1256
01:08:34,579 --> 01:08:31,059
look

1257
01:08:39,299 --> 01:08:34,589
one morning I believe and he saw this

1258
01:08:43,249 --> 01:08:39,309
gigantic and I'm talking about big okay

1259
01:08:47,129 --> 01:08:43,259
I'm not talking about the size of a

1260
01:08:50,010 --> 01:08:47,139
Greyhound bus I'm talking about as he

1261
01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:50,020
described it the size of an aircraft

1262
01:08:58,470 --> 01:08:54,250
carrier UFO that came blowing out of the

1263
01:09:01,529 --> 01:08:58,480
ocean up into the sky and then a while

1264
01:09:04,890 --> 01:09:01,539
later another one or perhaps the same

1265
01:09:09,260 --> 01:09:04,900
one came back down and re-entered the

1266
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:09,270
the water now that was originally his

1267
01:09:17,419 --> 01:09:14,770
story okay but then as that garnered

1268
01:09:21,539 --> 01:09:17,429
quite a bit of attention the story

1269
01:09:24,029 --> 01:09:21,549
continued to grow and I'm not going to

1270
01:09:28,769 --> 01:09:24,039
go through all the variations of it but

1271
01:09:32,669 --> 01:09:28,779
one of the hot topics of the day was

1272
01:09:35,970 --> 01:09:32,679
Bill Moore and Jamie Chandra's mj-12

1273
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:35,980
documents okay are you familiar with

1274
01:09:43,410 --> 01:09:39,690
that yeah all right the mj-12 documents

1275
01:09:47,010 --> 01:09:43,420
and according to Cooper at this time he

1276
01:09:51,539 --> 01:09:47,020
could verify all of it well later when

1277
01:09:56,910 --> 01:09:51,549
the mj-12 documents blew up basically

1278
01:09:59,970 --> 01:09:56,920
blew up in Cooper immediately did a 180

1279
01:10:03,930 --> 01:09:59,980
and started going on about how they were

1280
01:10:04,350 --> 01:10:03,940
all disinformation and he knew it all

1281
01:10:08,270 --> 01:10:04,360
along

1282
01:10:12,060 --> 01:10:08,280
and his story kept flip-flopping and

1283
01:10:17,819 --> 01:10:12,070
changing and the things that he was

1284
01:10:22,290 --> 01:10:17,829
involved in so it all cumulated with the

1285
01:10:28,140 --> 01:10:22,300
Bob Lazar story all right this is when I

1286
01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:28,150
got involved back in 1988 and this was

1287
01:10:37,470 --> 01:10:32,650
before I started my radio broadcasting

1288
01:10:40,799 --> 01:10:37,480
in 91 and before art bell was on the air

1289
01:10:44,030 --> 01:10:40,809
art bell at that time was doing

1290
01:10:47,910 --> 01:10:44,040
political talk radio on satellite

1291
01:10:50,370 --> 01:10:47,920
okay there was a guy out of Las Vegas by

1292
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:50,380
the name of Billy Goodman he had a radio

1293
01:10:56,990 --> 01:10:52,210
program called the Billy Goodman

1294
01:11:01,320 --> 01:10:57,000
happening and when the Lazar story broke

1295
01:11:04,290 --> 01:11:01,330
Goodman was able through I mean Vegas is

1296
01:11:06,510 --> 01:11:04,300
a very small town may look big but

1297
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:06,520
believe me it's a small town and

1298
01:11:12,890 --> 01:11:08,890
everybody worth knowing anybody knows

1299
01:11:16,290 --> 01:11:12,900
everybody and Goodman got in touch with

1300
01:11:21,390 --> 01:11:16,300
George Knapp and they were able to get

1301
01:11:25,500 --> 01:11:21,400
Lazar and Jean huh Lazar is friend on

1302
01:11:29,010 --> 01:11:25,510
his show and dad exploded and on that

1303
01:11:32,370 --> 01:11:29,020
first show one of the Collins was bill

1304
01:11:34,500 --> 01:11:32,380
Cooper now bill Cooper then and you've

1305
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:34,510
got to have some background in this

1306
01:11:39,450 --> 01:11:36,850
Martin I have no idea how much

1307
01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:39,460
background you have but one of the

1308
01:11:46,770 --> 01:11:44,170
players at that time was John Lear John

1309
01:11:51,630 --> 01:11:46,780
Lear son of William layer of Learjet

1310
01:11:54,390 --> 01:11:51,640
corporate corporation John was then one

1311
01:11:57,870 --> 01:11:54,400
of the major UFO players on the UFO

1312
01:12:00,330 --> 01:11:57,880
stage he was being courted and talented

1313
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:00,340
all across the country he was still

1314
01:12:07,140 --> 01:12:04,930
flying commercial then he was a pilot he

1315
01:12:09,480 --> 01:12:07,150
was still flying commercially he was

1316
01:12:13,020 --> 01:12:09,490
flying as a matter of fact a lot of

1317
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:13,030
freight but he would be invited to these

1318
01:12:21,090 --> 01:12:17,650
UFO conferences all across the United

1319
01:12:24,870 --> 01:12:21,100
States and he was a big draw at the time

1320
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:24,880
well through Goodman and George Knapp

1321
01:12:31,140 --> 01:12:27,970
and John Lear and there were others some

1322
01:12:36,240 --> 01:12:31,150
both famous and infamous names

1323
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:36,250
associated with this Lazar flew Goodman

1324
01:12:42,060 --> 01:12:40,210
show right out of the water suddenly he

1325
01:12:45,780 --> 01:12:42,070
was in Billy Goodman was in a national

1326
01:12:49,170 --> 01:12:45,790
spotlight and his show really took off

1327
01:12:51,540 --> 01:12:49,180
now if you're not familiar with Billy

1328
01:12:54,540 --> 01:12:51,550
Goodman you got to do a little research

1329
01:12:57,180 --> 01:12:54,550
on them because I can remember sitting

1330
01:12:59,490 --> 01:12:57,190
here in LA and I could tune

1331
01:13:03,479 --> 01:12:59,500
in his show the matter of fact I had a

1332
01:13:06,780 --> 01:13:03,489
rather infamous happening one night on

1333
01:13:11,430 --> 01:13:06,790
his show when he had bill Cooper on as a

1334
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:11,440
guest right after my first part one of

1335
01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:15,010
my expose Helen Cooper first you know

1336
01:13:25,380 --> 01:13:20,650
hit the newsstands but at any rate he

1337
01:13:28,890 --> 01:13:25,390
called a Goodman show and just ranted

1338
01:13:31,290 --> 01:13:28,900
and raved about what a true patriot what

1339
01:13:34,590 --> 01:13:31,300
a wonderful human being what a

1340
01:13:37,380 --> 01:13:34,600
courageous guy the guy that was thumbing

1341
01:13:41,310 --> 01:13:37,390
his nose at the whole secret government

1342
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:41,320
blah blah blah and I mean I've got I've

1343
01:13:46,950 --> 01:13:43,930
got a copy of that which was a good

1344
01:13:50,100 --> 01:13:46,960
thing I saved that later in retrospect

1345
01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:50,110
but I have a copy of that just counting

1346
01:13:59,780 --> 01:13:53,170
how all red white and blue Bob Lazar

1347
01:14:07,610 --> 01:13:59,790
really was well not long after that okay

1348
01:14:11,130 --> 01:14:07,620
George Knapp had had also a talk show

1349
01:14:13,470 --> 01:14:11,140
television talk show down in Vegas and

1350
01:14:16,200 --> 01:14:13,480
he would occasionally bring on

1351
01:14:18,510 --> 01:14:16,210
newsmakers and whatever the flavor of

1352
01:14:21,689 --> 01:14:18,520
the day was would interview them on his

1353
01:14:24,150 --> 01:14:21,699
show and he brought in John Lear and

1354
01:14:29,670 --> 01:14:24,160
Bill Cooper now the other thing that

1355
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:29,680
Cooper then was known for was the JFK

1356
01:14:41,459 --> 01:14:36,850
assassination now when I first met John

1357
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:41,469
Lear in November of 1988 this was after

1358
01:14:53,850 --> 01:14:46,570
my entree into the UFO field I had

1359
01:14:58,530 --> 01:14:53,860
called John John had just recently put a

1360
01:15:01,229 --> 01:14:58,540
file up on the perronnette computer

1361
01:15:07,020 --> 01:15:01,239
service which then ended up on

1362
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:07,030
CompuServe which was his original it's

1363
01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:10,090
now known as the John Lear document his

1364
01:15:15,090 --> 01:15:11,050
original four

1365
01:15:17,190 --> 01:15:15,100
and paper on the whole UFO thing now I'm

1366
01:15:21,420 --> 01:15:17,200
not gonna bore you with all the details

1367
01:15:26,250 --> 01:15:21,430
but the crux of it was that when he put

1368
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:26,260
that document up the UFO field ignited

1369
01:15:35,130 --> 01:15:32,650
now it had been not exactly even killed

1370
01:15:39,540 --> 01:15:35,140
up to that point I mean there had been

1371
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:39,550
cases that have been coming up but two

1372
01:15:48,330 --> 01:15:42,730
things cause the UFO field to ignite

1373
01:15:50,850 --> 01:15:48,340
then we're talking about 88-89 bill

1374
01:15:54,290 --> 01:15:50,860
Moore and Jamie shonduras mj-12

1375
01:15:59,310 --> 01:15:54,300
documents and the John Lear paper and

1376
01:16:04,920 --> 01:15:59,320
suddenly the UFO field divided into

1377
01:16:10,380 --> 01:16:04,930
almost armed camps and the sniping and

1378
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:10,390
the fire and you know the flaming on the

1379
01:16:20,670 --> 01:16:15,610
nascent web went into overdrive now when

1380
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:20,680
all that happened bill Cooper basically

1381
01:16:27,860 --> 01:16:24,850
made his appearance and it looked from

1382
01:16:34,020 --> 01:16:27,870
afar that he and John Lear had basically

1383
01:16:39,690 --> 01:16:34,030
allied themselves together however after

1384
01:16:42,510 --> 01:16:39,700
this happened John Lear was invited on

1385
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:42,520
bill or I'm sorry on George Knapp's

1386
01:16:49,440 --> 01:16:46,570
program and he basically had said a

1387
01:16:52,950 --> 01:16:49,450
couple of things that angered and

1388
01:16:55,610 --> 01:16:52,960
enraged Cooper about Cooper's

1389
01:16:59,130 --> 01:16:55,620
information because it was obvious that

1390
01:17:02,580 --> 01:16:59,140
Cooper was by then plagiarizing and

1391
01:17:05,580 --> 01:17:02,590
fabricating information now prior to

1392
01:17:09,350 --> 01:17:05,590
that happening Lear had been approached

1393
01:17:12,990 --> 01:17:09,360
by a guy by the name of Lars Hanson

1394
01:17:16,890 --> 01:17:13,000
when Lear was at the height of his UFO

1395
01:17:20,480 --> 01:17:16,900
popularity and Lars Hanson was a JFK

1396
01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:20,490
researcher now I knew all these guys

1397
01:17:24,859 --> 01:17:24,130
okay I know them all and as a matter of

1398
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:24,869
fact

1399
01:17:30,740 --> 01:17:28,170
at one time or another on my radio shows

1400
01:17:34,729 --> 01:17:30,750
or in the pages of UFO magazine I

1401
01:17:37,040 --> 01:17:34,739
interviewed them all and Hansen had been

1402
01:17:40,609 --> 01:17:37,050
working with a couple of other guys on a

1403
01:17:44,419 --> 01:17:40,619
theory that the JFK assassination had

1404
01:17:48,620 --> 01:17:44,429
actually been conducted and the fatal

1405
01:17:53,709 --> 01:17:48,630
head shot had been fired by the driver

1406
01:17:54,890 --> 01:17:53,719
of Kennedy's limousine in Dallas Texas

1407
01:17:57,950 --> 01:17:54,900
okay

1408
01:18:00,379 --> 01:17:57,960
now this video that they had put

1409
01:18:04,089 --> 01:18:00,389
together where they had a fourth or

1410
01:18:07,339 --> 01:18:04,099
fifth copy of the Sapru turf film and

1411
01:18:10,939 --> 01:18:07,349
Hanson and his two can pay tree it's had

1412
01:18:13,879 --> 01:18:10,949
taken it to a professional lab washed

1413
01:18:16,669 --> 01:18:13,889
all the Keller out of the Zapruder film

1414
01:18:20,180 --> 01:18:16,679
which originally was an 8 millimeter in

1415
01:18:22,970 --> 01:18:20,190
Keller 8 or 16-millimeter I forget now

1416
01:18:26,270 --> 01:18:22,980
but it was in Keller and they basically

1417
01:18:30,649 --> 01:18:26,280
turned it into a black and white film so

1418
01:18:34,459 --> 01:18:30,659
they could enhance okay the frames and

1419
01:18:37,129 --> 01:18:34,469
not be misled by the Keller and in one

1420
01:18:40,820 --> 01:18:37,139
of the frames for just a brief second it

1421
01:18:45,109 --> 01:18:40,830
looks like there is the driver is

1422
01:18:47,240 --> 01:18:45,119
holding a handgun now when Lear got this

1423
01:18:49,550 --> 01:18:47,250
when I first went down to meet him that

1424
01:18:51,410 --> 01:18:49,560
was one of the first things he did was

1425
01:18:54,439 --> 01:18:51,420
to show me that and I got to tell you at

1426
01:18:55,310 --> 01:18:54,449
first glance Wow I was kind of blown

1427
01:18:58,220 --> 01:18:55,320
away by it

1428
01:19:03,439 --> 01:18:58,230
and I started asking I went into my cop

1429
01:19:06,470 --> 01:19:03,449
routine and John got cagey okay he got

1430
01:19:09,410 --> 01:19:06,480
cagey I didn't know then although not

1431
01:19:13,850 --> 01:19:09,420
long after that I found out but where he

1432
01:19:17,740 --> 01:19:13,860
got the film but he duplicated that and

1433
01:19:21,669 --> 01:19:17,750
he sent it to bill Cooper and suddenly

1434
01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:21,679
bill Cooper claimed that he had seen

1435
01:19:29,959 --> 01:19:25,610
secret naval intelligence documents

1436
01:19:31,129 --> 01:19:29,969
talking about the hit on JFK and that

1437
01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:31,139
they knew all about it

1438
01:19:37,550 --> 01:19:34,770
and that the driver William Greer was

1439
01:19:39,550 --> 01:19:37,560
the perpetrator now this was simply

1440
01:19:44,030 --> 01:19:39,560
hogwash

1441
01:19:46,850 --> 01:19:44,040
in it

1442
01:19:49,880 --> 01:19:46,860
and incidentally I still will today

1443
01:19:52,490 --> 01:19:49,890
occasionally come across people that

1444
01:19:54,680 --> 01:19:52,500
want to attack me because I'm talking

1445
01:19:57,680 --> 01:19:54,690
about their hero bill Cooper in the JFK

1446
01:20:00,229 --> 01:19:57,690
tape or other things okay that this guy

1447
01:20:03,229 --> 01:20:00,239
was known for now was Bill

1448
01:20:04,520 --> 01:20:03,239
pardon me was built Cooper or we're

1449
01:20:06,620 --> 01:20:04,530
getting a little feedback here I'm not

1450
01:20:11,540 --> 01:20:06,630
sure what that is would you be able to

1451
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:11,550
turn your turn your volume down on your

1452
01:20:17,209 --> 01:20:13,890
on your headset or whatever you have

1453
01:20:18,290 --> 01:20:17,219
here just a little bit how's that yep

1454
01:20:21,850 --> 01:20:18,300
doesn't sound like it's feeding back

1455
01:20:24,410 --> 01:20:21,860
thank you and sorry for that listeners

1456
01:20:26,510 --> 01:20:24,420
bill Cooper would see the one that

1457
01:20:31,010 --> 01:20:26,520
people talk about that they think he was

1458
01:20:35,270 --> 01:20:31,020
assassinated I'm thinking of yeah yeah

1459
01:20:37,700 --> 01:20:35,280
yeah well he was shot alright okay you

1460
01:20:40,479 --> 01:20:37,710
see here was the other thing about

1461
01:20:46,729 --> 01:20:40,489
Cooper and lo look he's been dead since

1462
01:20:50,060 --> 01:20:46,739
November of 2001 okay and you know I I

1463
01:20:53,900 --> 01:20:50,070
don't want to necessarily bash the guy's

1464
01:20:57,229 --> 01:20:53,910
been dead for almost 14 years but

1465
01:21:00,890 --> 01:20:57,239
unfortunately his disinformation lives

1466
01:21:04,970 --> 01:21:00,900
on now he lived out here in Southern

1467
01:21:07,010 --> 01:21:04,980
California and as you can imagine me

1468
01:21:11,030 --> 01:21:07,020
being a former cop I know a lot of cops

1469
01:21:14,209 --> 01:21:11,040
I had some good friends who were cops

1470
01:21:19,790 --> 01:21:14,219
down were close to where Cooper was then

1471
01:21:23,000 --> 01:21:19,800
living with his wife a a lady that he

1472
01:21:26,770 --> 01:21:23,010
had brought over from Asia okay they had

1473
01:21:28,850 --> 01:21:26,780
a little girl but and I mean hey look I

1474
01:21:31,670 --> 01:21:28,860
didn't come on here to do a whole show

1475
01:21:34,130 --> 01:21:31,680
about Cooper but I could all right but

1476
01:21:37,130 --> 01:21:34,140
here here was the crux of it there's a

1477
01:21:40,790 --> 01:21:37,140
lot more involved than we have time to

1478
01:21:45,500 --> 01:21:40,800
talk about now but he was drinking

1479
01:21:48,950 --> 01:21:45,510
heavily and unfortunately and every

1480
01:21:51,620 --> 01:21:48,960
night I'm talking about okay every night

1481
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:51,630
and he would get intoxicated to the

1482
01:21:57,530 --> 01:21:54,810
point where he would get violent and

1483
01:22:00,410 --> 01:21:57,540
there had been a number of occasions

1484
01:22:05,030 --> 01:22:00,420
where the police ended up showing up at

1485
01:22:09,440 --> 01:22:05,040
his home and he eventually moved out of

1486
01:22:12,830 --> 01:22:09,450
here down to Arizona and some other

1487
01:22:16,370 --> 01:22:12,840
things happened down there then he was

1488
01:22:21,860 --> 01:22:16,380
wanted for questioning on some things

1489
01:22:26,170 --> 01:22:21,870
including tax evasion bank fraud if I

1490
01:22:32,510 --> 01:22:26,180
recall correctly some other things and

1491
01:22:35,170 --> 01:22:32,520
he publicly posted on his website he had

1492
01:22:39,260 --> 01:22:35,180
a website and he had a shortwave radio

1493
01:22:41,690 --> 01:22:39,270
program for a while called the hour of

1494
01:22:44,540 --> 01:22:41,700
the time where he would go on and he

1495
01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:44,550
would rant about these a lot of these

1496
01:22:50,120 --> 01:22:47,370
government conspiracies and its family

1497
01:22:52,250 --> 01:22:50,130
some of them as a matter of fact I got a

1498
01:22:54,680 --> 01:22:52,260
I got to tell you it probably ended up

1499
01:22:57,650 --> 01:22:54,690
being true but you know what they say

1500
01:23:02,480 --> 01:22:57,660
even a broken clock is Right twice a day

1501
01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:02,490
okay but at any rate his wife ended up

1502
01:23:08,830 --> 01:23:04,730
leaving the country with their daughter

1503
01:23:11,660 --> 01:23:08,840
then he was by himself and he said any

1504
01:23:16,360 --> 01:23:11,670
government agent or whatever that

1505
01:23:20,960 --> 01:23:16,370
attempted to apprehend him would be met

1506
01:23:22,400 --> 01:23:20,970
with armed resistance in other words you

1507
01:23:27,170 --> 01:23:22,410
come up on my property and I'm gonna

1508
01:23:31,250 --> 01:23:27,180
shoot you well it all cumulated when one

1509
01:23:35,930 --> 01:23:31,260
day a guy who instantly was a was a

1510
01:23:38,770 --> 01:23:35,940
physician a doctor an MD okay drove past

1511
01:23:42,670 --> 01:23:38,780
his house apparently I don't know why

1512
01:23:46,130 --> 01:23:42,680
was briefly driving on his property

1513
01:23:49,910 --> 01:23:46,140
Cooper came running out jumped in his

1514
01:23:51,530 --> 01:23:49,920
vehicle chased this man down pulled him

1515
01:23:55,190 --> 01:23:51,540
out of his car at gunpoint

1516
01:23:56,360 --> 01:23:55,200
I guess he terrified this poor guy half

1517
01:24:00,290 --> 01:23:56,370
out of his mind

1518
01:24:01,970 --> 01:24:00,300
and when the when Cooper left the guy

1519
01:24:02,660 --> 01:24:01,980
reported him to the police

1520
01:24:06,740 --> 01:24:02,670
they

1521
01:24:10,790 --> 01:24:06,750
decided to go ahead and effect an arrest

1522
01:24:14,150 --> 01:24:10,800
that night and what they did was they

1523
01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:14,160
had a couple of cops go out in civilian

1524
01:24:21,169 --> 01:24:17,130
clothes get in a pickup truck drive

1525
01:24:26,540 --> 01:24:21,179
across his property Cooper came running

1526
01:24:29,810 --> 01:24:26,550
out and in his vehicle okay

1527
01:24:33,709 --> 01:24:29,820
I guess he almost ran one of these guys

1528
01:24:37,930 --> 01:24:33,719
down went tearing back to his house

1529
01:24:42,410 --> 01:24:37,940
jumped out the police up by his door

1530
01:24:46,640 --> 01:24:42,420
attempted to effect an arrest Cooper

1531
01:24:49,490 --> 01:24:46,650
fired at them shot one police officer in

1532
01:24:54,189 --> 01:24:49,500
the head and they opened up and shot him

1533
01:24:59,180 --> 01:24:54,199
dead now if that equates as

1534
01:25:01,430 --> 01:24:59,190
assassination I guess you know I would

1535
01:25:04,160 --> 01:25:01,440
call it I personally would call it

1536
01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:04,170
resisting arrest and using lethal force

1537
01:25:12,070 --> 01:25:09,210
to resist arrest right right now I want

1538
01:25:15,860 --> 01:25:12,080
to shift gears here a little bit and a

1539
01:25:18,800 --> 01:25:15,870
lot of people that are trying to do good

1540
01:25:20,780 --> 01:25:18,810
honest research that I that I speak with

1541
01:25:23,590 --> 01:25:20,790
actually and have become friends with

1542
01:25:25,550 --> 01:25:23,600
and talked to on the phone a lot

1543
01:25:28,610 --> 01:25:25,560
probably one of them is actually

1544
01:25:31,130 --> 01:25:28,620
listening right now a lot of times they

1545
01:25:37,669 --> 01:25:31,140
get really discouraged in this field in

1546
01:25:39,410 --> 01:25:37,679
many ways it's kind of like oh they just

1547
01:25:44,360 --> 01:25:39,420
get discouraged because of all the let

1548
01:25:46,939 --> 01:25:44,370
downs and I when I was looking for

1549
01:25:48,979 --> 01:25:46,949
specific yeah yeah well I'm gonna

1550
01:25:51,709 --> 01:25:48,989
actually leave that to you because when

1551
01:25:54,260 --> 01:25:51,719
I was looking up information about you

1552
01:25:57,200 --> 01:25:54,270
on the internet before you came on I saw

1553
01:26:01,550 --> 01:25:57,210
where Kevin Randall wrote about you back

1554
01:26:05,390 --> 01:26:01,560
in 2007 and basically the title is Don

1555
01:26:08,930 --> 01:26:05,400
Ecker quits UFO research and I actually

1556
01:26:10,729 --> 01:26:08,940
read the story and I saw a lot of

1557
01:26:13,610 --> 01:26:10,739
parallels to your quotes in there

1558
01:26:16,220 --> 01:26:13,620
compared to what my friends are

1559
01:26:16,680 --> 01:26:16,230
basically saying these days and do you

1560
01:26:20,820 --> 01:26:16,690
want to talk

1561
01:26:26,970 --> 01:26:20,830
about that well yeah sure I mean you

1562
01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:26,980
know before the top of the last hour you

1563
01:26:34,340 --> 01:26:32,010
had a question about my and my wife's

1564
01:26:42,750 --> 01:26:34,350
association with Bill and Nancy burns

1565
01:26:45,750 --> 01:26:42,760
okay I became dissatisfied with what I

1566
01:26:49,650 --> 01:26:45,760
was seeing in UFO research now you know

1567
01:26:54,420 --> 01:26:49,660
back in in the earlier days okay in the

1568
01:26:59,010 --> 01:26:54,430
late 80s the early 90s this was a very

1569
01:27:03,540 --> 01:26:59,020
dynamic field with some very dynamic at

1570
01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:03,550
the time investigators there were people

1571
01:27:11,970 --> 01:27:07,930
like Bruce Maccabee okay a naval optical

1572
01:27:15,570 --> 01:27:11,980
physicist Stanton Friedman there were

1573
01:27:20,280 --> 01:27:15,580
people like Kevin Randle Don Schmidt

1574
01:27:23,040 --> 01:27:20,290
Bill Moore Jaime Chandra before you know

1575
01:27:27,240 --> 01:27:23,050
and John people like John Lear people

1576
01:27:31,229 --> 01:27:27,250
like later Lars Hanson did these people

1577
01:27:34,410 --> 01:27:31,239
that I mentioned and this was before a

1578
01:27:37,050 --> 01:27:34,420
lot of them ended up self-destructing

1579
01:27:40,740 --> 01:27:37,060
for whatever reason Linda Moulton Howe

1580
01:27:44,400 --> 01:27:40,750
okay was was another name that was very

1581
01:27:47,040 --> 01:27:44,410
prominent at the time and you know many

1582
01:27:48,900 --> 01:27:47,050
more I'm sure if i sat here and I really

1583
01:27:51,450 --> 01:27:48,910
thought about it I could come up with

1584
01:27:55,490 --> 01:27:51,460
those name people like John keel for

1585
01:28:02,970 --> 01:27:58,530
Donald Kehoe he as a matter of fact

1586
01:28:06,390 --> 01:28:02,980
didn't pass away until 1986 you know a

1587
01:28:12,200 --> 01:28:06,400
lot of people that were very prominent

1588
01:28:14,689 --> 01:28:12,210
and had been very active in research and

1589
01:28:20,060 --> 01:28:14,699
what do we have today

1590
01:28:24,030 --> 01:28:20,070
can you name you know any of those those

1591
01:28:27,209 --> 01:28:24,040
can you name names today like I just did

1592
01:28:29,950 --> 01:28:27,219
from that time period like prominent in

1593
01:28:33,690 --> 01:28:29,960
the field people that are

1594
01:28:39,040 --> 01:28:33,700
construed as doing good legitimate

1595
01:28:42,850 --> 01:28:39,050
honest research calling a wart a wart if

1596
01:28:46,810 --> 01:28:42,860
that's what they find there are you know

1597
01:28:48,720 --> 01:28:46,820
I'd say there are a few David Marlar

1598
01:28:52,600 --> 01:28:48,730
comes to mind right up right off the top

1599
01:28:55,000 --> 01:28:52,610
I really have a lot of respect for him

1600
01:28:57,910 --> 01:28:55,010
you know Stanton Friedman still around I

1601
01:29:01,479 --> 01:28:57,920
know we were talking earlier about mj-12

1602
01:29:03,130 --> 01:29:01,489
and and he still stands behind I think

1603
01:29:05,770 --> 01:29:03,140
three documents on that and I know I

1604
01:29:08,050 --> 01:29:05,780
actually brought up the subject to him

1605
01:29:10,510 --> 01:29:08,060
last time I interviewed him and I said

1606
01:29:13,030 --> 01:29:10,520
well being in the fine arts field myself

1607
01:29:16,479 --> 01:29:13,040
when you go into a house and there's a

1608
01:29:18,100 --> 01:29:16,489
fake painting or - fake paintings you

1609
01:29:20,320 --> 01:29:18,110
kind of got a look at every single

1610
01:29:21,850 --> 01:29:20,330
painting because most likely they're all

1611
01:29:24,160 --> 01:29:21,860
fakes you know that's generally how it

1612
01:29:26,320 --> 01:29:24,170
works and he kind of turned that around

1613
01:29:28,390 --> 01:29:26,330
and just said you know no there was

1614
01:29:30,459 --> 01:29:28,400
actually you know three documents that

1615
01:29:33,190 --> 01:29:30,469
actually were you know authentic and you

1616
01:29:36,130 --> 01:29:33,200
know I don't know enough about that to

1617
01:29:38,709 --> 01:29:36,140
talk intelligently about it but I do

1618
01:29:40,090 --> 01:29:38,719
believe that there are still a number of

1619
01:29:41,410 --> 01:29:40,100
them around and there are some of the

1620
01:29:43,930 --> 01:29:41,420
names that you mentioned that I have

1621
01:29:47,800 --> 01:29:43,940
seen gone off the deep end and and I do

1622
01:29:51,220 --> 01:29:47,810
I do pick on Steven Greer quite a bit on

1623
01:29:53,890 --> 01:29:51,230
the show and some he be aware I never

1624
01:29:57,760 --> 01:29:53,900
mentioned Greer's name ever I did hear

1625
01:30:00,640 --> 01:29:57,770
that I mean I did see that we met Greer

1626
01:30:03,580 --> 01:30:00,650
my wife and I met Greer he called us up

1627
01:30:07,720 --> 01:30:03,590
hey you know for years my wife and I

1628
01:30:12,180 --> 01:30:07,730
were literally at the center of the UFO

1629
01:30:16,030 --> 01:30:12,190
universe I mean literally at the center

1630
01:30:18,190 --> 01:30:16,040
because everybody came came our way they

1631
01:30:22,209 --> 01:30:18,200
wanted their research they wanted their

1632
01:30:26,380 --> 01:30:22,219
work chronicled in the pages of UFO

1633
01:30:30,070 --> 01:30:26,390
magazine and so you know or they wanted

1634
01:30:32,709 --> 01:30:30,080
to come on you know now I'm not bragging

1635
01:30:37,270 --> 01:30:32,719
when I say this Martin I'm not bragging

1636
01:30:43,390 --> 01:30:37,280
but after Billy Goodman I had the only

1637
01:30:46,090 --> 01:30:43,400
in the first UFO talk show anywhere

1638
01:30:49,570 --> 01:30:46,100
this was before art now art was doing

1639
01:30:51,730 --> 01:30:49,580
radio but he wasn't doing political

1640
01:30:54,210 --> 01:30:51,740
right he was doing political radio he

1641
01:30:57,760 --> 01:30:54,220
wasn't doing paranormal or UFO radio

1642
01:31:00,280 --> 01:30:57,770
okay I had one of the the with these

1643
01:31:05,170 --> 01:31:00,290
actually the first show after Billy

1644
01:31:07,660 --> 01:31:05,180
Goodman now so you know we we had people

1645
01:31:12,520 --> 01:31:07,670
that we were interfacing with all the

1646
01:31:16,420 --> 01:31:12,530
time and continuously now to get to the

1647
01:31:21,580 --> 01:31:16,430
point that I that I wanted to make we

1648
01:31:24,790 --> 01:31:21,590
were contacted by Steven Greer okay he

1649
01:31:29,350 --> 01:31:24,800
wanted to meet us and this was god this

1650
01:31:31,330 --> 01:31:29,360
had to be 90 or 91 so we said sure

1651
01:31:35,530 --> 01:31:31,340
because I mean we were willing to meet

1652
01:31:37,660 --> 01:31:35,540
anybody and we met him downtown in Los

1653
01:31:40,660 --> 01:31:37,670
Angeles at a restaurant we were going to

1654
01:31:42,670 --> 01:31:40,670
have lunch and we sat down we shook

1655
01:31:46,060 --> 01:31:42,680
hands and you know got to know each

1656
01:31:49,480 --> 01:31:46,070
other a little bit and Greer started

1657
01:31:54,640 --> 01:31:49,490
pumping us about what was our take on

1658
01:31:58,510 --> 01:31:54,650
the UFO thing and basically you know I

1659
01:32:01,120 --> 01:31:58,520
told him I said hey I don't know okay

1660
01:32:05,200 --> 01:32:01,130
and if you were to ask me right now

1661
01:32:08,620 --> 01:32:05,210
Martin in 2015 my take on the UFO thing

1662
01:32:13,200 --> 01:32:08,630
and I'll tell you right up front I don't

1663
01:32:15,990 --> 01:32:13,210
know mmm-hmm and that's the God's truth

1664
01:32:21,610 --> 01:32:16,000
but anyway

1665
01:32:27,220 --> 01:32:21,620
Greer started pitching this idea of love

1666
01:32:29,950 --> 01:32:27,230
light sunshine and unicorns okay and I

1667
01:32:33,070 --> 01:32:29,960
listened to him and Vicki listen to him

1668
01:32:36,880 --> 01:32:33,080
for a little bit and then I hit him with

1669
01:32:40,300 --> 01:32:36,890
a half-dozen cases where there was blood

1670
01:32:44,740 --> 01:32:40,310
smoke and fear from the field okay

1671
01:32:48,070 --> 01:32:44,750
and you know to say that we ended on a

1672
01:32:51,910 --> 01:32:48,080
friendly note would not be correct and

1673
01:32:55,120 --> 01:32:51,920
that was actually the last time that I

1674
01:32:59,080 --> 01:32:55,130
personally ever had any contact

1675
01:33:02,890 --> 01:32:59,090
with Greer although we did later have

1676
01:33:06,490 --> 01:33:02,900
contact with some of the people in his

1677
01:33:10,090 --> 01:33:06,500
sea SETI organization after we did an

1678
01:33:14,140 --> 01:33:10,100
issue of UFO magazine on cults in the

1679
01:33:16,660 --> 01:33:14,150
UFO field Wow he was mentioned his group

1680
01:33:19,870 --> 01:33:16,670
was mentioned only in passing and

1681
01:33:24,160 --> 01:33:19,880
believe me if we had wanted to do more

1682
01:33:27,220 --> 01:33:24,170
but he I had the goods if I wanted to do

1683
01:33:30,490 --> 01:33:27,230
more but we didn't I mean we weren't out

1684
01:33:34,360 --> 01:33:30,500
the hatch if anybody but then they

1685
01:33:38,200 --> 01:33:34,370
decided to take off after us now at that

1686
01:33:41,140 --> 01:33:38,210
time one of Greer's associates out here

1687
01:33:45,850 --> 01:33:41,150
on the west coast was dr. Joe Burks do

1688
01:33:49,300 --> 01:33:45,860
you know dr. Bernal while he was then

1689
01:33:52,960 --> 01:33:49,310
still a part of see setting he had since

1690
01:33:56,140 --> 01:33:52,970
left sea setting and quite honestly I do

1691
01:33:59,260 --> 01:33:56,150
not know why he left

1692
01:34:02,830 --> 01:33:59,270
sea setting and this is pure speculation

1693
01:34:04,870 --> 01:34:02,840
on my part but I would have to guess it

1694
01:34:09,520 --> 01:34:04,880
may not have been on the best of terms

1695
01:34:13,180 --> 01:34:09,530
but like I said I do not know but when

1696
01:34:16,630 --> 01:34:13,190
we wrote this this cult or cutting it

1697
01:34:21,730 --> 01:34:16,640
was called cult or cutting edge issue of

1698
01:34:27,820 --> 01:34:21,740
UFO magazine I got well I the magazine

1699
01:34:34,030 --> 01:34:27,830
received a 15 page diatribe from Joe

1700
01:34:38,290 --> 01:34:34,040
Burks and he wanted to debate us on

1701
01:34:41,590 --> 01:34:38,300
CompuServe and I said why on CompuServe

1702
01:34:44,740 --> 01:34:41,600
I said hell I've got a radio show so I

1703
01:34:48,430 --> 01:34:44,750
got in touch with Burks and brought him

1704
01:34:50,440 --> 01:34:48,440
on my radio show and we had a debate and

1705
01:34:53,620 --> 01:34:50,450
when he and I bought him dinner

1706
01:34:55,420 --> 01:34:53,630
okay they showed up before they before

1707
01:34:57,970 --> 01:34:55,430
the show there was a restaurant right

1708
01:35:00,700 --> 01:34:57,980
next to our studio that I used to take

1709
01:35:02,380 --> 01:35:00,710
when we had guests you know come in the

1710
01:35:04,570 --> 01:35:02,390
studio live we would go to the

1711
01:35:07,760 --> 01:35:04,580
restaurant and i52 moved the magazine

1712
01:35:10,040 --> 01:35:07,770
would buy them dinner bottom dinner

1713
01:35:12,230 --> 01:35:10,050
and when he left he stormed out of the

1714
01:35:18,110 --> 01:35:12,240
studio that'll give you an idea of how

1715
01:35:24,080 --> 01:35:18,120
it ended up so you know all the stories

1716
01:35:27,170 --> 01:35:24,090
I could tell fell yeah so so you at

1717
01:35:30,230 --> 01:35:27,180
night and 2007 you sort of made a

1718
01:35:33,440 --> 01:35:30,240
proclamation you're giving up the UFO

1719
01:35:36,290 --> 01:35:33,450
field paper I wrote a paper uh-huh and

1720
01:35:39,170 --> 01:35:36,300
that's what Kevin Randle it's on his

1721
01:35:42,850 --> 01:35:39,180
blog you can find it you can find it on

1722
01:35:50,360 --> 01:35:42,860
the web if you're interested it's titled

1723
01:35:53,350 --> 01:35:50,370
my twenty years in the UFO fog fog my 20

1724
01:35:56,870 --> 01:35:53,360
years in the UFO fog

1725
01:36:00,890 --> 01:35:56,880
well I one of the things you you just

1726
01:36:04,250 --> 01:36:00,900
mentioned a minute ago I think is

1727
01:36:06,290 --> 01:36:04,260
probably gonna remain I believe the same

1728
01:36:09,140 --> 01:36:06,300
exact thing that you do and that is I

1729
01:36:12,710 --> 01:36:09,150
have no idea you know I know what I saw

1730
01:36:16,190 --> 01:36:12,720
I had a sighting too and I know what I

1731
01:36:18,020 --> 01:36:16,200
saw seemed totally unexplainable and I

1732
01:36:21,710 --> 01:36:18,030
believe there's too many people seeing

1733
01:36:23,630 --> 01:36:21,720
unexplainable things whether there's an

1734
01:36:27,700 --> 01:36:23,640
answer that we'll ever have on the

1735
01:36:31,370 --> 01:36:27,710
subject it's uh I I don't know I don't

1736
01:36:33,920 --> 01:36:31,380
think I don't have high hopes that I'm

1737
01:36:34,400 --> 01:36:33,930
gonna know the answer last night last

1738
01:36:38,840 --> 01:36:34,410
night

1739
01:36:42,230 --> 01:36:38,850
okay the the on Richard Howe klain's

1740
01:36:44,450 --> 01:36:42,240
the other side of midnight program he

1741
01:36:48,290 --> 01:36:44,460
invited me back I was on a couple of

1742
01:36:50,390 --> 01:36:48,300
nights ago to talk about my basically my

1743
01:36:55,850 --> 01:36:50,400
career in the field and then he invited

1744
01:37:00,610 --> 01:36:55,860
me back for a round table panel okay

1745
01:37:04,460 --> 01:37:00,620
on his show and basically the the

1746
01:37:07,340 --> 01:37:04,470
linchpin to his panel he wanted to talk

1747
01:37:11,870 --> 01:37:07,350
of all things about Hillary Clinton's

1748
01:37:14,360 --> 01:37:11,880
email server and what that may or may

1749
01:37:19,010 --> 01:37:14,370
not have had to do with a lot of things

1750
01:37:20,490 --> 01:37:19,020
all right now he had to two other

1751
01:37:24,360 --> 01:37:20,500
panelists on

1752
01:37:27,420 --> 01:37:24,370
mr. grant Cameron Presidential UFOs and

1753
01:37:33,270 --> 01:37:27,430
mr. Stephen Bassett of the disclosure

1754
01:37:38,490 --> 01:37:33,280
movement and you know and I'll be simply

1755
01:37:41,790 --> 01:37:38,500
just blunt honest I have never given a

1756
01:37:43,860 --> 01:37:41,800
lot of credence to the idea now not

1757
01:37:46,350 --> 01:37:43,870
Stephens work because he's really done

1758
01:37:49,680 --> 01:37:46,360
he's done some great work with what he's

1759
01:37:52,020 --> 01:37:49,690
been trying to do but I've never given a

1760
01:37:55,770 --> 01:37:52,030
lot of credence to the idea that the

1761
01:37:58,310 --> 01:37:55,780
government the government whatever part

1762
01:38:02,670 --> 01:37:58,320
of the government is involved in

1763
01:38:05,670 --> 01:38:02,680
suppressing UFO information that it

1764
01:38:10,350 --> 01:38:05,680
would be forthcoming with that

1765
01:38:13,890 --> 01:38:10,360
information now I say that for many many

1766
01:38:16,020 --> 01:38:13,900
reasons some reasons that I can I can

1767
01:38:19,740 --> 01:38:16,030
openly talk about some things that are

1768
01:38:24,150 --> 01:38:19,750
pure informed but speculation

1769
01:38:27,270 --> 01:38:24,160
nonetheless on my part and people that I

1770
01:38:31,020 --> 01:38:27,280
have interfaced with over the last 25

1771
01:38:36,660 --> 01:38:31,030
plus years that I've been banging around

1772
01:38:41,790 --> 01:38:36,670
in this field now one of the things that

1773
01:38:45,000 --> 01:38:41,800
to me suggests that might be one of the

1774
01:38:49,530 --> 01:38:45,010
reasons that they would never be

1775
01:38:55,020 --> 01:38:49,540
forthcoming that they have almost 70

1776
01:38:58,320 --> 01:38:55,030
years of lying deceit treachery and

1777
01:39:00,150 --> 01:38:58,330
personal destruction of people that have

1778
01:39:04,680 --> 01:39:00,160
dared to speak about this subject

1779
01:39:08,120 --> 01:39:04,690
publicly okay is that they feel they are

1780
01:39:13,050 --> 01:39:08,130
hiding a secret that would be too

1781
01:39:17,160 --> 01:39:13,060
explosive to release to the public now

1782
01:39:21,120 --> 01:39:17,170
over those years I have talked to people

1783
01:39:21,870 --> 01:39:21,130
both inside as well as outside of

1784
01:39:24,510 --> 01:39:21,880
government

1785
01:39:26,430 --> 01:39:24,520
we've interfaced and I'm talking about

1786
01:39:29,490 --> 01:39:26,440
when I was with the magazine we've

1787
01:39:30,450 --> 01:39:29,500
interfaced with people in the Department

1788
01:39:33,990 --> 01:39:30,460
of Defense

1789
01:39:36,689 --> 01:39:34,000
we've interfaced with people in

1790
01:39:40,620 --> 01:39:36,699
I've interfaced with people that were

1791
01:39:46,290 --> 01:39:40,630
formerly intelligence operatives

1792
01:39:49,080 --> 01:39:46,300
officers CIA NSA and others some of them

1793
01:39:53,850 --> 01:39:49,090
were actually off the record quite

1794
01:39:56,720 --> 01:39:53,860
forthcoming but the bottom line is I am

1795
01:40:00,300 --> 01:39:56,730
convinced and I said this last night

1796
01:40:04,740 --> 01:40:00,310
that they will go to their grave and

1797
01:40:08,729 --> 01:40:04,750
never disclose a thing there's only one

1798
01:40:12,300 --> 01:40:08,739
thing that might force their hand and

1799
01:40:15,419 --> 01:40:12,310
that's if ET shows up over all the major

1800
01:40:19,200 --> 01:40:15,429
cities on the planet and you know a la

1801
01:40:21,600 --> 01:40:19,210
ID for Independence Day Allah you know

1802
01:40:23,340 --> 01:40:21,610
the end of the of the secrecy built up

1803
01:40:29,580 --> 01:40:23,350
now this is something else I said last

1804
01:40:33,540 --> 01:40:29,590
night that look if the aliens if that's

1805
01:40:37,169 --> 01:40:33,550
in fact what they are ET if that's what

1806
01:40:40,140 --> 01:40:37,179
they are if they wanted to end the

1807
01:40:44,120 --> 01:40:40,150
cover-up they could have done that last

1808
01:40:48,030 --> 01:40:44,130
year or the year before or 50 years ago

1809
01:40:49,620 --> 01:40:48,040
it's obvious that they have no intention

1810
01:40:53,520 --> 01:40:49,630
of doing that

1811
01:40:57,169 --> 01:40:53,530
which tells me after years of looking at

1812
01:41:00,450 --> 01:40:57,179
this that they have an active agenda

1813
01:41:03,180 --> 01:41:00,460
that is much easier to carry out if they

1814
01:41:08,220 --> 01:41:03,190
don't have interference from you know

1815
01:41:11,669 --> 01:41:08,230
reporters from Fox CNN MSNBC ABC you

1816
01:41:15,300 --> 01:41:11,679
know CBS they're going about their

1817
01:41:17,189 --> 01:41:15,310
business very quietly and it's people

1818
01:41:20,640 --> 01:41:17,199
like you and I that are talking about it

1819
01:41:22,910 --> 01:41:20,650
and the fact that we're talking about it

1820
01:41:25,890 --> 01:41:22,920
where do you think the mainstream

1821
01:41:31,470 --> 01:41:25,900
relegate sus Martin yeah we're on the

1822
01:41:36,540 --> 01:41:31,480
fringe regardless of how much thoughtful

1823
01:41:38,939 --> 01:41:36,550
discourse research okay you know this is

1824
01:41:42,750 --> 01:41:38,949
one thing that and I used to do a hell

1825
01:41:46,410 --> 01:41:42,760
of a lot of TV back in the 90s when at

1826
01:41:47,140 --> 01:41:46,420
the height of this I was on TV on it on

1827
01:41:50,200 --> 01:41:47,150
various

1828
01:41:54,280 --> 01:41:50,210
programs several times a week okay and

1829
01:41:57,310 --> 01:41:54,290
it used to irritate me to the maximum

1830
01:42:00,640 --> 01:41:57,320
when I would be referred to as a UFO

1831
01:42:03,520 --> 01:42:00,650
believer and I would get right in their

1832
01:42:06,910 --> 01:42:03,530
face about that believer my butt

1833
01:42:09,160 --> 01:42:06,920
okay I am a researcher do you want to

1834
01:42:11,439 --> 01:42:09,170
see my research and of course the

1835
01:42:14,410 --> 01:42:11,449
majority of these people wouldn't know

1836
01:42:17,380 --> 01:42:14,420
UFOs from a pimple on their tuckus

1837
01:42:20,229 --> 01:42:17,390
that's just the way it is okay this is

1838
01:42:23,020 --> 01:42:20,239
not something that the majority of them

1839
01:42:25,419 --> 01:42:23,030
have any interest in and they don't want

1840
01:42:28,419 --> 01:42:25,429
to take the time to research it that's

1841
01:42:33,130 --> 01:42:28,429
what a journalist does if they don't

1842
01:42:35,860 --> 01:42:33,140
know about a topic or a subject they

1843
01:42:37,870 --> 01:42:35,870
research it but most of these guys and

1844
01:42:41,350 --> 01:42:37,880
gals that are you know doing these

1845
01:42:43,560 --> 01:42:41,360
smirking stories on the local news or

1846
01:42:46,680 --> 01:42:43,570
even the national news upon occasion

1847
01:42:53,860 --> 01:42:46,690
couldn't tell you the difference between

1848
01:42:57,160 --> 01:42:53,870
Roswell and Montauk okay yep one

1849
01:42:59,080 --> 01:42:57,170
question that came up a few minutes ago

1850
01:43:02,500 --> 01:42:59,090
was someone wanted to know on the

1851
01:43:06,490 --> 01:43:02,510
message board what your your favorite

1852
01:43:09,790 --> 01:43:06,500
case or let's say your case you think is

1853
01:43:13,390 --> 01:43:09,800
one of the most legitimate ones two of

1854
01:43:16,570 --> 01:43:13,400
them all right and I broke them okay

1855
01:43:20,560 --> 01:43:16,580
okay I broke them and I broke them on

1856
01:43:24,810 --> 01:43:20,570
national television and these are the

1857
01:43:29,350 --> 01:43:24,820
cases that I have always been most

1858
01:43:34,530 --> 01:43:29,360
interested in because of the as a rule

1859
01:43:41,140 --> 01:43:34,540
the witnesses have involved the military

1860
01:43:45,580 --> 01:43:41,150
okay military personnel and NASA in the

1861
01:43:56,500 --> 01:43:45,590
two cases I broke one as a direct result

1862
01:43:59,290 --> 01:43:56,510
of a NASA live broadcast was sts-48 that

1863
01:44:00,970 --> 01:43:59,300
was a shuttle mission that took place in

1864
01:44:07,840 --> 01:44:00,980
September of 1990

1865
01:44:12,880 --> 01:44:07,850
one and while it was of Australia and

1866
01:44:18,250 --> 01:44:12,890
New Zealand they were sending a live

1867
01:44:21,420 --> 01:44:18,260
stream of a thunderstorm okay back to

1868
01:44:23,979 --> 01:44:21,430
NASA headquarters and a friend of mine

1869
01:44:29,830 --> 01:44:23,989
excuse me a buddy of mine by the name of

1870
01:44:33,850 --> 01:44:29,840
Don Ranch a UFO researcher back in

1871
01:44:36,970 --> 01:44:33,860
Dundalk Maryland had a contact at one of

1872
01:44:42,270 --> 01:44:36,980
the local small cable TV stations and

1873
01:44:45,090 --> 01:44:42,280
they would capture the entire live feed

1874
01:44:47,800 --> 01:44:45,100
that NASA would beam back to the earth

1875
01:44:52,690 --> 01:44:47,810
now we're talking about a live feed

1876
01:44:56,310 --> 01:44:52,700
Martin okay in real time and suddenly

1877
01:45:00,760 --> 01:44:56,320
above the limb of the earth

1878
01:45:03,190 --> 01:45:00,770
this object arose now when you're

1879
01:45:07,960 --> 01:45:03,200
looking at this video there's a lot of

1880
01:45:11,350 --> 01:45:07,970
stuff happening around this shuttle but

1881
01:45:14,860 --> 01:45:11,360
this object rises above the limb of the

1882
01:45:20,470 --> 01:45:14,870
earth and the shuttle is flying along

1883
01:45:24,340 --> 01:45:20,480
and suddenly the whole picture of this

1884
01:45:27,490 --> 01:45:24,350
feed is very momentarily very briefly

1885
01:45:32,520 --> 01:45:27,500
blanked out by a brilliant flash of

1886
01:45:36,790 --> 01:45:32,530
light and suddenly something is

1887
01:45:41,620 --> 01:45:36,800
streaking directly at this unknown blip

1888
01:45:47,040 --> 01:45:41,630
this UFO this unidentified flying object

1889
01:45:52,270 --> 01:45:47,050
and this object makes a dramatic and

1890
01:45:56,820 --> 01:45:52,280
sudden 100 45-degree angle right turn

1891
01:46:02,140 --> 01:45:56,830
and flashes out into space at least

1892
01:46:06,040 --> 01:46:02,150
quadrupling its speed this dream of

1893
01:46:09,700 --> 01:46:06,050
matter that was apparently fired and

1894
01:46:12,820 --> 01:46:09,710
that's the only thing that I can I can

1895
01:46:13,480 --> 01:46:12,830
speculate because back in those days we

1896
01:46:19,480 --> 01:46:13,490
had

1897
01:46:23,560 --> 01:46:19,490
an entire issue of the magazine on Star

1898
01:46:25,510 --> 01:46:23,570
Wars the Star Wars technology that was

1899
01:46:29,770 --> 01:46:25,520
being developed by the Department of the

1900
01:46:31,900 --> 01:46:29,780
defense and the Pentagon remember Ronald

1901
01:46:37,120 --> 01:46:31,910
Reagan's Star Wars shoot down we have a

1902
01:46:39,460 --> 01:46:37,130
mess okay and I think this was a fine

1903
01:46:42,850 --> 01:46:39,470
now this is once again I can't prove

1904
01:46:46,110 --> 01:46:42,860
this but I think it was a firing of a

1905
01:46:51,580 --> 01:46:46,120
technology known as brilliant pebbles

1906
01:46:54,340 --> 01:46:51,590
like a massive huge shotgun blast that

1907
01:46:58,240 --> 01:46:54,350
would be used to take out ICBMs if they

1908
01:47:03,070 --> 01:46:58,250
were ever god forbid launched but then

1909
01:47:05,560 --> 01:47:03,080
this unknown circles back around okay

1910
01:47:09,940 --> 01:47:05,570
and some other things happen but at any

1911
01:47:15,310 --> 01:47:09,950
rate I knew some producers here in town

1912
01:47:18,370 --> 01:47:15,320
and I called the first guy up I knew who

1913
01:47:20,530 --> 01:47:18,380
was it hard copy he came out to the

1914
01:47:24,430 --> 01:47:20,540
office I showed him this video we got

1915
01:47:27,070 --> 01:47:24,440
all excited wanted to do a a show on it

1916
01:47:29,380 --> 01:47:27,080
right away and then I called up another

1917
01:47:32,530 --> 01:47:29,390
producer I knew it Larry King Live back

1918
01:47:35,250 --> 01:47:32,540
in DC now I've been a guest on Larry

1919
01:47:38,500 --> 01:47:35,260
King Live at that point several times

1920
01:47:42,730 --> 01:47:38,510
probably about four or five times but I

1921
01:47:48,610 --> 01:47:42,740
told him about this he had me run down

1922
01:47:51,550 --> 01:47:48,620
to CNN in LA they beamed this back to

1923
01:47:55,440 --> 01:47:51,560
him and they brought me on Larry King

1924
01:47:58,750 --> 01:47:55,450
Live to talk about it now they wanted a

1925
01:48:01,750 --> 01:47:58,760
skeptic that was one thing that used to

1926
01:48:04,240 --> 01:48:01,760
you know em who antagonize me but hey

1927
01:48:08,250 --> 01:48:04,250
what are you gonna do so I recommended

1928
01:48:10,960 --> 01:48:08,260
fill class I'm class at the time and

1929
01:48:15,220 --> 01:48:10,970
gave them classes phone number he

1930
01:48:17,080 --> 01:48:15,230
refused so they got back to me and said

1931
01:48:19,210 --> 01:48:17,090
well he didn't want to do the show you

1932
01:48:24,080 --> 01:48:19,220
know do you know anybody else so I

1933
01:48:26,780 --> 01:48:24,090
recommended dr. Jim over and after

1934
01:48:29,780 --> 01:48:26,790
that show it's kind of the subject of

1935
01:48:32,810 --> 01:48:29,790
legend okay are you did you have you

1936
01:48:35,350 --> 01:48:32,820
ever seen it no well go up on YouTube

1937
01:48:38,690 --> 01:48:35,360
it's up on YouTube Larry King Live

1938
01:48:43,000 --> 01:48:38,700
sts-48 so anyway to make a long story

1939
01:48:46,550 --> 01:48:43,010
short one of our contacts back in

1940
01:48:49,760 --> 01:48:46,560
Washington a week after this broadcast

1941
01:48:52,430 --> 01:48:49,770
called us up now he had written several

1942
01:48:56,620 --> 01:48:52,440
articles for UFO magazine he was a

1943
01:48:59,450 --> 01:48:56,630
defense reporter okay a national defense

1944
01:49:02,360 --> 01:48:59,460
reporter but he had written articles for

1945
01:49:03,950 --> 01:49:02,370
the magazine under a pseudonym he didn't

1946
01:49:07,640 --> 01:49:03,960
want to be painted with that fringe

1947
01:49:12,140 --> 01:49:07,650
brush we were just talking about but he

1948
01:49:15,920 --> 01:49:12,150
called up and he said Don he said do you

1949
01:49:18,080 --> 01:49:15,930
know what you did and honestly I didn't

1950
01:49:19,430 --> 01:49:18,090
know what he was talking about and I

1951
01:49:25,610 --> 01:49:19,440
said no what do you what are you talking

1952
01:49:28,610 --> 01:49:25,620
about he said you really saw a bunch of

1953
01:49:29,960 --> 01:49:28,620
people at the Pentagon and I said why

1954
01:49:31,910 --> 01:49:29,970
what are you talking about

1955
01:49:35,720 --> 01:49:31,920
he said you being on Larry King last

1956
01:49:39,650 --> 01:49:35,730
week with that with that sts-48 video he

1957
01:49:42,890 --> 01:49:39,660
said do you know what they did and I

1958
01:49:48,050 --> 01:49:42,900
said no he said they've encrypted that

1959
01:49:52,250 --> 01:49:48,060
live feed and ever since that broadcast

1960
01:49:55,930 --> 01:49:52,260
in June of 92 you have never seen

1961
01:50:00,370 --> 01:49:55,940
another live feed from outer space that

1962
01:50:03,890 --> 01:50:00,380
wasn't either vetted or in time delay

1963
01:50:05,600 --> 01:50:03,900
because of what that video showed now

1964
01:50:08,210 --> 01:50:05,610
that's a little-known fact that a lot of

1965
01:50:10,880 --> 01:50:08,220
people are not aware of but I'm the

1966
01:50:13,370 --> 01:50:10,890
reason Martin that you'll never see a

1967
01:50:15,290 --> 01:50:13,380
live feed from outer space well how

1968
01:50:17,390 --> 01:50:15,300
about that and you know we only have

1969
01:50:20,030 --> 01:50:17,400
about five minutes left so why don't you

1970
01:50:24,770 --> 01:50:20,040
talk about this the second one the

1971
01:50:28,490 --> 01:50:24,780
second one was a space mission that took

1972
01:50:31,760 --> 01:50:28,500
place jointly although at the time it

1973
01:50:37,280 --> 01:50:31,770
was not known it was a joint mission

1974
01:50:40,160 --> 01:50:37,290
between NASA and black cosmos the

1975
01:50:44,870 --> 01:50:40,170
Soviet because it was still then the

1976
01:50:48,860 --> 01:50:44,880
Soviet Union the Soviet space agency it

1977
01:50:52,490 --> 01:50:48,870
was two probes being sent to Mars Phobos

1978
01:50:54,320 --> 01:50:52,500
1 and Phobos 2 which were launched in

1979
01:50:58,910 --> 01:50:54,330
July of 1988

1980
01:51:02,890 --> 01:50:58,920
now this mission was supposed to be a

1981
01:51:09,890 --> 01:51:02,900
Pathfinder mission because at that time

1982
01:51:14,090 --> 01:51:09,900
all right at that time 1987-88 the

1983
01:51:18,070 --> 01:51:14,100
Russians and and NASA were discussing

1984
01:51:21,890 --> 01:51:18,080
the possibility of a joint manned

1985
01:51:24,050 --> 01:51:21,900
mission to Mars and guess what the date

1986
01:51:29,900 --> 01:51:24,060
was that it they were theorizing it

1987
01:51:33,020 --> 01:51:29,910
might take place no idea 2014-2015 okay

1988
01:51:36,620 --> 01:51:33,030
now they sent these probes up now the

1989
01:51:41,950 --> 01:51:36,630
first probe they lost okay if you ever

1990
01:51:43,550 --> 01:51:41,960
look at all the attempts to reach Mars

1991
01:51:47,300 --> 01:51:43,560
okay bye

1992
01:51:51,560 --> 01:51:47,310
of course unmanned space probes only

1993
01:51:54,740 --> 01:51:51,570
about 30% okay ever got through all the

1994
01:51:57,260 --> 01:51:54,750
rest something happened to them there

1995
01:52:00,380 --> 01:51:57,270
used to be a joke called the great

1996
01:52:03,200 --> 01:52:00,390
galactic ghoul was gobbling these probes

1997
01:52:06,920 --> 01:52:03,210
up alright that was the joke now that's

1998
01:52:09,230 --> 01:52:06,930
that's actually that's actually true the

1999
01:52:11,630 --> 01:52:09,240
Russians blamed the loss of the probe on

2000
01:52:14,270 --> 01:52:11,640
a combination of computer and human

2001
01:52:17,360 --> 01:52:14,280
error now on both these probes not only

2002
01:52:21,520 --> 01:52:17,370
Russian technology was on it but also

2003
01:52:24,740 --> 01:52:21,530
NASA technology and all the telemetry

2004
01:52:27,440 --> 01:52:24,750
was being fed back through Goldstone

2005
01:52:31,070 --> 01:52:27,450
okay here in the United States and then

2006
01:52:34,700 --> 01:52:31,080
to the Soviet Union or Russia the second

2007
01:52:38,810 --> 01:52:34,710
probe however got there in January of 89

2008
01:52:43,160 --> 01:52:38,820
okay then the fun began they began

2009
01:52:46,600 --> 01:52:43,170
photographing Mars and they were

2010
01:52:51,109 --> 01:52:46,610
photographing the Martian moon Phobos

2011
01:52:53,839 --> 01:52:51,119
now why were they photographing Phobos

2012
01:52:56,629 --> 01:52:53,849
the thought was then they wanted to have

2013
01:52:59,149 --> 01:52:56,639
number one find out what is Phobos made

2014
01:53:02,950 --> 01:52:59,159
out of them okay because nobody really

2015
01:53:05,959 --> 01:53:02,960
knew hang on a second

2016
01:53:09,080 --> 01:53:05,969
my computer was beeping at me I thought

2017
01:53:11,930 --> 01:53:09,090
somebody was trying to call me oh no I

2018
01:53:13,550 --> 01:53:11,940
know what it is and that's uh we always

2019
01:53:16,189 --> 01:53:13,560
have to I always have to communicate

2020
01:53:18,020 --> 01:53:16,199
with Keith in the wrap up here and

2021
01:53:20,030 --> 01:53:18,030
that's up and when I'm texting in your

2022
01:53:21,530 --> 01:53:20,040
texting is my texting is beeping on your

2023
01:53:23,839 --> 01:53:21,540
skype sorry about that

2024
01:53:27,770 --> 01:53:23,849
okay are we gonna have yeah we have we

2025
01:53:29,899 --> 01:53:27,780
have two minutes left okay so they

2026
01:53:32,300 --> 01:53:29,909
wanted to find out what Phobos the

2027
01:53:34,820 --> 01:53:32,310
moonlit was made out of because that was

2028
01:53:38,149 --> 01:53:34,830
looked to be where the astronauts and

2029
01:53:41,359 --> 01:53:38,159
cosmonauts would touch down and then use

2030
01:53:45,050 --> 01:53:41,369
the Phobos moon as a stepping stone down

2031
01:53:46,640 --> 01:53:45,060
to the planet Mars surface but while all

2032
01:53:50,300 --> 01:53:46,650
this was going on

2033
01:53:53,990 --> 01:53:50,310
they had photographed a number of hot

2034
01:53:56,359 --> 01:53:54,000
spots this was a terminology used on

2035
01:53:59,260 --> 01:53:56,369
Mars hot spots

2036
01:54:04,100 --> 01:53:59,270
now Mars is considered be pretty much

2037
01:54:06,229 --> 01:54:04,110
geologically dead but something down

2038
01:54:10,030 --> 01:54:06,239
there was generating heat then they

2039
01:54:13,040 --> 01:54:10,040
photographed a huge ellipsoid shadow

2040
01:54:15,950 --> 01:54:13,050
that was reflecting back off of the

2041
01:54:17,870 --> 01:54:15,960
Martian atmosphere now Mars does have an

2042
01:54:22,160 --> 01:54:17,880
atmosphere not one that we can breathe

2043
01:54:26,540 --> 01:54:22,170
but nonetheless it's there then they

2044
01:54:31,510 --> 01:54:26,550
photograph something off of the limb of

2045
01:54:35,540 --> 01:54:31,520
foe of Phobos that the Russians said

2046
01:54:42,290 --> 01:54:35,550
unbelievably was 15 and a half miles

2047
01:54:44,510 --> 01:54:42,300
long and a mile in diameter I read about

2048
01:54:46,490 --> 01:54:44,520
this before I know the case I know what

2049
01:54:50,270 --> 01:54:46,500
you're talking about when this object

2050
01:54:54,109 --> 01:54:50,280
turned toward their craft and rammed it

2051
01:54:58,030 --> 01:54:54,119
and destroyed the Phobos two craft right

2052
01:55:02,750 --> 01:54:58,040
now that was I got that directly from

2053
01:55:04,859 --> 01:55:02,760
Colonel marina Popovich who was their

2054
01:55:07,830 --> 01:55:04,869
female version of General

2055
01:55:11,250 --> 01:55:07,840
Chuck Yeager she had more aviation

2056
01:55:13,679 --> 01:55:11,260
records than anybody else in well she's

2057
01:55:16,799 --> 01:55:13,689
one of the top aviators in the world she

2058
01:55:19,889 --> 01:55:16,809
was also a trained cosmonaut and her

2059
01:55:24,299 --> 01:55:19,899
husband ex-husband was general Pavel

2060
01:55:27,659 --> 01:55:24,309
Popovich who until he ran off with his

2061
01:55:29,790 --> 01:55:27,669
secretary and left his wife okay had

2062
01:55:33,049 --> 01:55:29,800
been the first human being to rendezvous

2063
01:55:37,909 --> 01:55:33,059
with another spacecraft in orbit back in

2064
01:55:42,389 --> 01:55:37,919
1962 so this this story created quite a

2065
01:55:45,389 --> 01:55:42,399
crunch at the time Wow well thank you

2066
01:55:48,989 --> 01:55:45,399
dawn this is going to be it for the end

2067
01:55:51,119 --> 01:55:48,999
of the show and do have a web site or if

2068
01:55:52,799 --> 01:55:51,129
anyone wants to send you an email can

2069
01:55:55,830 --> 01:55:52,809
they go through a web site and find your

2070
01:55:59,159 --> 01:55:55,840
contact I have a I have a nightly radio

2071
01:56:03,659 --> 01:55:59,169
show called Dark Matters radio out of

2072
01:56:06,689 --> 01:56:03,669
cyber Station USA in Boston Mass and you

2073
01:56:11,839 --> 01:56:06,699
can reach me at my yahoo email address

2074
01:56:16,350 --> 01:56:11,849
Decker the e cker zero seven to six at

2075
01:56:18,600 --> 01:56:16,360
yahoo.com and I'm also on Facebook as

2076
01:56:22,830 --> 01:56:18,610
you know so yeah that's how we met

2077
01:56:24,839 --> 01:56:22,840
well thanks so much and I'm gonna be

2078
01:56:26,399 --> 01:56:24,849
checking out your show well I want to

2079
01:56:29,040 --> 01:56:26,409
thank everyone for helping out with this

2080
01:56:32,310 --> 01:56:29,050
show tonight Keith Brolin for helping us

2081
01:56:35,129 --> 01:56:32,320
out with this live show I want to thank

2082
01:56:37,560 --> 01:56:35,139
Peggy shunning for helping us with the

2083
01:56:39,239 --> 01:56:37,570
Facebook page we have about twenty to

2084
01:56:41,219 --> 01:56:39,249
twenty three thousand people on there if

2085
01:56:43,229 --> 01:56:41,229
you want to like us on Facebook you can

2086
01:56:47,189 --> 01:56:43,239
interact with like-minded people there

2087
01:56:51,389 --> 01:56:47,199
and also I will be back next week with

2088
01:56:53,790 --> 01:56:51,399
Ray Hernandez and thanks so much for

2089
01:56:56,639 --> 01:56:53,800
listening everyone and you can listen to

2090
01:56:58,080 --> 01:56:56,649
the whole whole show free always right

2091
01:57:01,020 --> 01:56:58,090
here on the dark matter